1. Races need to be balanced, and they need more than minor tweaking.

2. Bianca...seriously? You think all of those races you listed would do well in the class you listed them with?

3. DMP presents a unique challenge for this. Normally, a race based on int would always take +int over anything else, so it makes sense to design a statpack which focuses around int. However, with DMP, having anything extremely high (besides con) is largely useless. Right now, the best stats would be around 14 of everything. In general, with DMP, the "average" races are the best. In order for this to make sense, we might have to reduce the total stats everyone gets, outside of CON, so that it is more difficult to get to 16-17 int (for example), but every point you do gain from your race/build/whatever will actually make a difference.

4. I like a new mechanic because I like shiny new things.

5. Without some sort of custom balance mechanic, it is impossible to differentiate between all of the races while still keeping them balanced. There are simply too many races; for some of them the differences are already pretty limited. If we balance the races that suck or are too powerful right now, we will really just end up with 20 races all within +/- 2 or 3 in each stat. That seems pretty boring to me, and leaves little room for play style and customization. I like the idea of allowing the player to differentiate their own character somewhat so that each character can be slightly different, starting from the base stats of the race (similar to what Ash was suggesting). Ethelon's idea is great in theory, but extremely difficult in practice. I don't think it is worth it.

Again I think tweaks would be good, however, this whole overhaul idea is not needed.

Not every race is going to be able to choose any guild just like every race isnt going to be able to choose every city or commune.

These are completely different things. There are 2 races banned in Celest, 1 in Serenwilde (and 1 more in some guilds), and I think reduced privileges in Glomdoring and Magnagora for 1 and 3 more. There is overlap on those races.

By contrast, over half the races are completely unviable for anything in almost every guild, and only 2-3 races are really optimal in most. The majority of that 2-3 for each guild is mugwump.

Racial tweaks would be fine, and good enough for me personally, but you can't just dismiss "an overhaul would be a good thing" with something as flimsy as that. I think seeing most races viable in every guild would be a good thing.

I dont think every race should be viable in every guild. Races should be tweaked so that every org spec race is on equal footing but I dont think an orchlach should make a viable bard.

The majority of races should be possible for each guild. They should not all necessarily be good, but the majority of races should be somewhat viable regardless of guild.

Why? What makes the value of "orclach bards and mugwump warriors are hard to envision" important?

Magnagora has no races banned.

Merian and Elfen? or is it just some of the guilds...

They're not banned, just neutered.

Orclach bard, maybe, maybe not. I would tend to think of one more as a skald, and see reason to have orclach bards.

But do you really think mugwump should be the one ideal bard race? What about the trill, or the lucidians, or even humans before the 90's?

The two races I'd most associate with bards (stereotype, sure) are humans and elfen. Neither of which hold a candle to mugwump. And given that bards are afflicty classes... if they don't have speed, they're better served with tankiness. Female kephera beats elfen or human.

Myself, I don't think that it's the mugwump race that is overpowered. It's that the other races are insufficient. Shiri mentioned that mugwumps in affliction classes can push the mechanical limits imposed on curing. I don't see a problem with that, given that I feel there should exist a means for most classes to kill another regardless of perfect curing. Curing should give you time to mount your offense. It shouldn't make you invulnerable. For invulnerability, a combination of curing and leaving results in the same situation - fights between two opponents of similar skill become about who makes the wrong choice at the wrong time.

But back to the argument at hand, do you feel that having more variety would be a bad thing?

Anyone who claims fixed races' stats are okay must be of the race that's also fitting for her guild, or just not actually care (either for combat or role playing).

Given the histories of each race makes their value important.

Are people really so constrained by their race's history? History should influence the present, but it doesn't rule it.

This thread has gone completely off topic.

Since I am biased I am taking Xavius's post and Cuber's post and creating a new thread to work out the details of creating Statpools and racial advantages.

No. I lied. I just wanted to write a post and list races. :xinemus:

My name is Daganev, and I approve this message/product.

Necro, but...

Yezpls.

And nifty level 50 rp abilities for all!

No longer will it only be viscanti who belch stinky breath clouds, nor dracnari set the clothes of others aflame when sneezing!

Okay, maybe that goes too far, but I would love to see the stat pools idea and an advantage tree.

Dwarves than can actually be played...I wasn't around to see them before the nerf everyone talks about.