Avenger system is ridiculous and pointless.
Yes, I did get vengeanced, you can stop your amateur psychoanalysis right there.
The reason I'm writing this is because I've now got to idle for about 30 hours (I'm not sure if the peace time is capped, or it stacks, or overlaps, or whatever) because Avenger doesn't wear off when you're not logged in.
If the few other people decide to call vengeance on me, I can expect to lose a level, and have a full 75 hours peaced (that's if it stacks up that far).
I'm sure it seemed like a nice idea when it was implemented, but it really doesn't prevent anything, novice killing is pretty much player-regulated. It's usually used by perfectly combat-capable people who call vengeance just to cripple opposing orgs for the purposes of winning raids and such.

Suggestions:
1) Remove Avenger.
2) Make suspect only last 1 rl day.
3) Remove the 'peaced' effect.
4) Remove the 'peaced' effect for bashing.
5) Remove Avenger for players over 50th.
6) Remove peaced effect if vengeanced by someone over 50th.
7) Remove peaced effect while in owned territories.
8) Remove Avenger system for people who RENOUNCE AVENGER. (meaning they can't be vengeanced, but they can't call vengeance either.)
9) Cap peacing effect at 5 hours max (but it should really be removed.)

There's an easy solution. It's called, don't screw with the avenger. If you can't handle the consequences, don't mess around.

PK CAREFUL ON.

mhm

Of course, the alternative to Avenger is an issues-based PK system...

I've never been hit by the Avenger. PK CAREFUL ON. Don't be stupid. Rules are pretty straightforward.

I see Avenger as a way to stop people who do not want to be involved in combat from being griefed. Remove parts of the system, and you'll end up with people randomly killing anyone they can 'because they can'. The only suggestions I believe will actually help the game are 4, 7 and possibly 6.

Heh, yeah, pretty easy to avoid in the first place.

The only one I kinda of agree with is #4 on your list.

The avenger is a touchy subject for me. I hate that it ignores things like lich so people can be griefed into oblivion and have no options. I hate that people can attack my shield, but I will get suspect unless I drop shield and let them hit me.

Avenger is fine IMO, though it shows real bad form when people that raid on a regular basis use the avenger. Not that they aren't within their rights to do so, obviously they are, but it just is kind of...well..it's lame.

I've found alot of people...unless you are a griefer...will forgive sticky situations. Even people that despise me.

Remove peace against mobs would be my only wish, even if that means longer peace time against players.

I agree 100% with you here.

I didn't say that all the suggestions were a be all, they were just ideas.
Still, I don't think people would dance around griefing people if Avenger peace was removed or whatever.
Being killed and forced to pray is by far enough, considering whoever called vengeance gets lost XP back.

Saying 'don't kill people on Prime' is pretty much a cop out.
If that was the case, just peace everyone on Prime and be done with it.
That way I won't be locked out of playing for hours and hours on end.

When you lich, you don't loss exp... how exactly are you griefed?

That's why lich needs xp loss.

I agreee, remove the peace thing or shorten it.. its far too long.. dying until prayer is hard punishement enough.. and we need to hunt too to recover.. or what? people expected us to hang around in the pool/megalith all day and talk? the peace thing is too long/severe..

But also: I did not think of using the avenger myself until a champion decided to use it against me. heh, talk about surprises. Well, now im gonna use it.. and im now careful not to attack people who is in my pk status.. learned that lesson the hard way..

oh lawd, this is not a lich argument.

It's just a pain in the butt to get jumped, use up herbs/salves/vials, have to redef, lose all your corpses...so on and so forth. You die, it should count for the avenger. That's just my opinion.

edit: oh i thought about this before but I thought I'd throw it in there. If it's like your first or second time being avengered..or whatever the correct term is, i don't think you should be peaced. The third time, you get peaced. Fourth a little longer, so on and so forth. This way people that make a mistake or don't know the rules have a little lee way and repeated offenders get the smack down

I'm personally very happy about the Avenger system. Having experienced a place without it, it sucked a bit because the PK rules instituted were very vague and susceptible to being interpreted in a manner which could end up with the griefed continually griefed, and no one else could (or would be) willing to handle the griefer.

With this system, everything is clear cut and defined as to who instigated what action and things can be handled appropriately. I'd agree about removing the peace against hunting things or even on your own territory maybe, but definitely not the outright removal of the system.

You die, you should lose exp. That's just my opinion.

this isn't about lich

Edit: I just realized I read this bit wrong, so nevermind. heh.

The very long peace is the only annoying thing. I would be happy if it would allow you to attack denizens. Also, demesnes seem to be a little glitchy when it comes to getting vengeance on you. I think that should be looked into.

There are many things that the Avenger system needs to have changed so that it is actually used fairly. It isn't a perfect system, but in most cases, it should be fine.

Of course, there are people who enjoy picking apart systems and ruining everyone else's fun. But then again, it's these people who force the need for these systems in the first place.