One group has lich, one doesn't. Group without lich all dies and vitaes, suspect. Group with lich all dies and liches, nothing. If 3 people from one and 3 from the other die, only one group gets suspect, so that's what it has to do with that.

And I'll just let the bolded part serve as where you and I have a point of disagreement. People have been given truedisfavours longer than 30 hours for things less than that, which has the same net effect-- lose conglutinate, lose trueheal, lose lich, lose drawdown/nightkiss, lose all the important skills and abilities one has to fight / hunt with.

Yes, it says that it is a good punishment.

odds are that the person you killed would rather be peaced for 15 hours then go through the experience again which lead to the use of Avenger.

#1. Effect is the same. My bitchy rant isn't completely self-centric, what I'm postulating is that having a system where the punishment is greater than the crime is a detriment to the player community, because it makes people spiteful OOCly (whether or not they're justified in feeling that way). I'll admit to not being immune to this, because no one is. Read Arawaen's post, for example. People should NOT be using this system this way. Ever. If it's being used this way, it needs to be ditched or switched, because it's obviously critically flawed and counterproductive to what's intended.

#2. Truedisfavours wear off while logged out, I thought. Peaced does not, meaning I've got to idle away the time while logged in. Overall, it's makes a huge difference. 6 hours playing a day = no combat skills or bashing or anything for 5 days.

I agree peacing should really be removed.

#1. Uh, no. It isn't. I guess you're one of those nutcases that support the death penalty for stealing. I'm too bewildered by this response to really say much more.

#2. You're either simply being contrary, or you're completely misinformed about the situation. Anyone that thinks being peaced for 15 hours is better than being killed twice is in the hardcore noncombatant pacifist minority.

Except we're not talking about two deaths. We're talking about fourteen, right?

Yes, this is my biggest issue with the Avenger. Talkan hits my shield and beckons. I have to declare him (wtf) and then Nydekion starts wailing on me without declaring?

12, I think.
Still, the most any one person experienced is 2 deaths.

Also, like I said, the problem I really have with it is the 'peaced' aspect, because there is no way the Avenger would be removed completely.

As is:
1 kill = nothing
2 kills = 2 deaths
3 kills = 4 deaths
...so on. This seems fine.
I'm perplexed as to why there needs to be a 'peace' added on to it that stacks up in a nonsensical way.
Adding peace is overkill, and it's not the way a fair system should work (and being fair >>>>>>>>>> being a 'deterrent').

Inky, Shiri won the thread 26 posts ago. Shhh.

Lame cop out.
Fail.

No, really, you can go away now.

PK CAREFUL ON ...

FTW.

This is sadly true. I think Yrael got one the other day that lasted for a 30 days, if I remember right. Some gods throw out DF's TDF's, etc way too loosely.

But back to avenger.

Make it like Imperian, where there is no avenger. If you die, you die.... if you are griefed (truly griefed) you issue, they get shrubbed, etc. You carry on.

There is a guy named Zenigra or Zinegra over in Imperian. He likes nothing more that hunting me with his wierd Apok or something buddy. Anyways, being a monk there I have mindsense and can see him coming.... What do I do??? I know I can't win, so I roll out. map path 1019 or something and I am gone... Wow, no griefing. Wow no need for avenger. I know how to handle being jumped. When he does catch up with me and I die, he doesn't come right back to where I come back from dys to get me. But if he did I could issue I guess.

I dunno, maybe the playerbase over there is more mature or something (doubtful ) but since they don't seem to have any issues that have made them install an avenger type npc in that IRE game. What are we doing so wrong that requires us to have to have that here??

I've no doubt that Avenger will be with us for a very long time.
All I'm suggesting, is that something is done about the bugs/misuse and that the peacing effect is removed/shortened.
That's all.

And for the record, 30 hours logged in is forever.
Especially considering I've missed out on all kinds of interesting stuff.
I'll take being griefed over being peaced any day.
...not that they're mutually exclusive (you can be attacked while peaced )

i love avenger its saved my ass from hours and hours of being ganked thank you.
-i so saw that post inky-

Damn it, why was it zapped. >.>

Anyway, I don't know how you can really be 'griefed'.
Someone enlighten me.

but seriously if peace wasnt there do you think people like Talkan or Narsrim would stop at 1 death. Thats what avenger is there to protect anyway, people that are around level 50 who want a little fighting but dont want to be jumped every 3 seconds by the same person.

No offense, but if Celest called a Jihad on you, there's enough people strong enough to grief you sufficiently without them ever getting vengeance.
But they don't. Because, surprise, they're not 100% asshole.

*cough*achaea*cough*