If someone can give a reason why the peaced effect should exist, I will concede.
Otherwise, it should be removed (or even toned down, if you're just sooooo gay for it).

This one's easy!

If you get hit by the Avenger, you broke the PK rules.

...considering it's the PK rules we're discussing, I'd think that was kind of a circular argument.

Not really. You're not arguing that killing freely on Prime is a good thing. You're arguing that your punishment shouldn't be a substantial deterrant. In the Achaean system, this means you sit with a couple weeks worth of truedisfavors. In our system, this means you sit with 30 hours of peacing, mostly because you couldn't be bothered to restrain yourself or launch a real raid.

Perhaps if peace time was capped at 10 hours, or if it wore off while you were logged out... that would be fine.
I simply don't see why peace is even necessary to begin with. It's overkill.
Not to mention that 30 hours is a long, LOOOOOONG time when you can't actually do anything.
Capping the peace time limit would be a good start.

Also, a way to see how much peaced time left would be good.

What sort of deterrant is death? Have you died twelve times? No? You're still better off than the people on your suspect list. Just plain dying is a reason to not go hunting when griefers are logged on.

No one on my suspect list died 12 times, therefore, why should I?
I really don't understand why people are making this mistake, maybe it's a little counterintuitive or something, I don't know.

Twelve people died because of you. If all you did was die, you'd still be up on xp. There would be absolutely no reason for me to not go out and farm kills on people who're bashing.

Why not? They're separate people.
If you're explicity going out of your way to 'farm' people, that's kind of lame (and you'd expect people to tell you so), but it's not inherently wrong, and it's not griefing.
Avenger, as I understand it, was supposed to prevent griefing, not stomp spontaneous combat into the ground.
Conflict is part of the game. Assuming you don't have vitae, crowrebirth, lich, resurgem, sacrifice or immolation available to you... you should suck it up, pray, and move on. Death is not comparable to peacing, in any way. Whan you start killing someone multiple times, that's when the vengeance kicks in. The thing is that people are saying 'there were too many problems so peace was added'. Really? There were? Because I think it's more likely that people were simply whining about being killed and having to pray (pre-constructs, so praying would more common, I guess).

Here's the kicker, though. Assuming I've got PK CAREFUL ON, I can, in fact, 'farm' people with the current avenger system. All I want. The peace effect doesn't matter, at all, because you need to kill someone, then attack them again in order to get vengeance. I could kill 15 different people and I'd not be vengeanced, provided I used a little care.

Yet this is never done. The only reason I can think of for this is that we have a few irritating people and a few combat-oriented people... but no griefers. Either that or people are too stupid to realize that this can actually be done.

Ok. Good. You acknowledge this. So dying is an acceptable risk, but refusing to show restraint should be met with...just dying? No, you grow a sack and raid if you want to fight.


^^^
False. You get vengeanced past ten without fail.

The reason it's not done is NOT that we have no griefers.

It's that people say, "Hm, if I get 15 people, I can't do anything on Prime for the next 30 days. I'll just get 10-11 and leave my options open."

"Oh, look, one dropped off. Who can I go jump?"

Was raised to 15 a while back, I believe.

The admin have repeatedly said that off-plane combat is open/free-pk. That along with the fact that they've pretty much said they're moving conflict to nexus worlds implies to me that yes, conflict is PART of the game. Off-prime part. Nexus worlds part. Sure, YOU won't have as much fun... On prime... Jumping people who aren't expecting it... But I guarantee that said recipients wouldn't have much fun either.

I wasn't jumping people like some farmer/griefer person. Magnagora decided to take momentary control of the Aetherplex, killed 1-2 people, Celestian group came with Forren in tow and drove everyone off.
Any Celestian who walked into the Aetherplex past the first 1-2 people KNEW what they were walking into, and deserved to die for doing the equivalent of jumping into village guards.

I know I'm not the only one who left that little stint peaced, and I really don't think the system should function like it does, because it prevents spontaneity. I, and many other people, do NOT want to play a game where combat is broken down into specific segments during specific times and so on and so on.

What if it WAS a raid? Assume we'd raided Celestia, killed a whole bunch of people, destroyed enough corpses so that people were made to pray, managed to kill a Supernal... that would have been much more detrimental to players as individuals, and as groups. I don't understand how you can be so pro-Avenger without also complaining about off-prime being a death-fest. Off-prime areas are the same as prime areas. They're equally viable hunting areas, equally viable influencing areas... and for some reason the PK rules differ?

I'm rambling, anyway.
I think that getting some kind of admin input would be interesting, to see what they think.
Morgfyre seemed kind of indifferent, actually. :/

You can't honestly believe this.

As I see it, getting peaced to the point of not being able to bash is wrong. Sure, I'll concede to that, but the overall removal of peacing? I'm sorry, but no. As you've stated before in an earlier post, "I made you pray, so what?". So what indeed. If your argument that the forced death and praying is bad enough for a punishment and yet make a remark such as that, doesn't it look a bit contradictory?

What IS death to a person who buys credits just for the sake of killing people? They die, they lose exp, sure, they don't care because they're just here to kill. The person who hunts for demigod/titan would care a bit more in comparison however, if they died and had to pray, now wouldn't they? One side cares about their death while the other doesn't....peacing prevents this. If you're peaced to that extent, then what's taken away is what gives the other person their griefing joy: killing people repeatedly with no sense of self-restraint.

I know it sucks that you have to wait out 30 hours of being peaced, but really, I'm glad that because of the system, a mindset such as the one I've mentioned above could be specifically squashed so that we would have the chance of not having to deal with it again.

I'm not planning on a grief-fest, damn it.
All I want is to see some spontaneous Prime conflict, outside of the sometimes hilariously tedious revolts and pointlessly difficult village raids.

Prime should be called Last, because it's the last place anything interesting happens.
It doesn't even make sense IC.
"Attack their city? No, that's silly. What we'll do is saunter up to Nil every so often, kill some things, throw a few corpses at a shrine, and leave once they enable ripple."
...perfect sense. Of course, what it's actually there for is to make things static so that no one ever really wins.

Odd, last I checked, the Avenger doesn't stop people from raiding cities/communes.

I agree.



This isn't an issue with avenger. This is an issue with discretionary powers which people have time and time again said are issues. Yes, the admin are being really, REALLY wishy-washy by saying "don't fight on prime, fight off-prime" and then "well, there are all these powers that make you feel safe in your off-prime place but you still shouldn't feel griefed when people come to kill you there" and finally "just fight on nexus worlds" (very paraphrased).

However.. To reiterate, this isn't an issue with avenger, it's an issue with the admin giving somewhat conflicting statements. So, is your issue that you were peaced, or that there's no meaningful conflict in Lusternia (besides the nexus world ones which I really don't find all that fun)?