I'm pretty sure that it does.
If you kill an attacker in your home territory, you're fine.
If you kill a defender in their home territory, they get suspect on you..
At least, I thought that was how it worked.

If defender attacks you in their territory, you can kill them with no problem.

If you attack denizen loyal to that org (so Magnagora/Celest/Seren/Glomdoring, such as villagers), you autodeclare everyone in the org. If you kill them, you get suspect.

My issue is the fact that Magnagora only gets to experience some (very tedious) off-prime combat in instances where we're almost always losing, and that for 5 minutes of fun with a short group skirmish (that was an interesting change of pace) I'm suffering an ungodly punishment.
I could get an extra 15-30 hours peaced if vengeance is called on me again, and it's simply unfair. I killed a few people (mostly assisted). They were momentarily inconvenienced. Praying takes 5 minutes. Bashing back up might take 1-2 hours (dependent on a few things, might be shorter) and that's assuming someone's #1 priority is demigod. I've got to sit around twiddling my thumbs, LOGGED IN, for what could be 60 hours. It's insane. Saying 'well you deserve it' is not teaching me anything, it's making me seethe. I KNOW I shouldn't be killing people on prime, and I regret it now, obviously, but it's disproportionately unfair towards me, and people (with their standard mob mentality) aren't being rational about this. And this is what extreme punishments lead to. Animosity between players. Look at Arawaen's post. The Avenger system hasn't 'prevented' griefing, it's become an extension of it. And I'm going crazy because no one seems to see the problem with this.

Argh.

You set up a gank squad at the Aetherplex! Not cool.

You know you did something bad. Bad things happen when you do bad things with mechanically coded and very predictable feedback. If it's making you seethe, it's doing what it was supposed to do. It's not disproportionately anything. If you hadn't typed in PK CAREFUL OFF, you wouldn't be in this situation. You "KNOW" (your emphasis) that you shouldn't have done it, but you did. Nothing you say will change that. You knew the system, you knew that not following the rules would get you peaced, and you got peaced. This should not be surprising to you!

Track down a bookbinder and write about how creating the seals has exposed Avechna to Astral currents indefinitely, thus causing complete insanity. You should have enough time to get it done. If you can't be bothered to do that, find a manse and pull a Celina.

Inky, you misunderstand my compassion for you as a player and mix it with things.. I actually had(suicided already) a magnagorian alt that talked to you and liked you. chill out dude.. i did not do that because im malicious

I did it because arawaen did it to me.. and now, im sorry.. but im gonna call it anytime..

Or -- you people tell me we can gank each other all the time and agree not to call avenger on me.. and i will agree not to call avenger on any of you.. not unless i have some agreement like that.. i will make use of that part of the game.. on second thought.. lets jsut dont kill each other on prime twice ok? things are easier that way..

the law is hard, but that is the law..

You know, after you killed me that first time. avechna should have whispered to you about further initiating contact on me.

during the time that you guys were ganking me.. i had suspect one three people in there and didnt lift a finger to stop them from killing me.. not until avechna whispered its all ok.. but by that time it was all over.. and then i had vitaed and you still kept on attacking..

Ive learned my lesson and will not kill people twice on prime.. it was a hard lesson to be sure.. but ive learned it..

I hope you learn your lesson too..

Its just the way the game is setup right now..

I'm sorry for your situation..

but -- the law is hard, but that is the law..

Talkan and Narsrim don't get vengeance cast on them because they're smart enough to keep PK CAREFUL ON.

I like the avenger system, aside of a few bugs here and there. It does prevent little people from being griefed unfairly. It's not totally perfect, but it is way better than what Achaea has.

Obviously it has prevented griefing. I predict you will do PK CAREFUL ON and never think to turn it off again, for fear of being peaced for 30 more hours. And if you DO decide to turn it off... well, then you'll just get vengeanced and peaced for another 30 hours and we will be griefer-free on prime again.

Because we have a coded system, people feel free to PK all they want without having to consider the consequences, reason, other people's feelings. Avenger supposedly does that for them.

If you keep responding to him, he'll just keep humming loud over your answer, and then asking the question again. Here, let's try another approach.

Inky, you're totally right. You win. Here's a shiny hat you can wear. There's another thread somewhere where 78 virgins are awaiting you as reward for winning. Go find them!

Heres all I am going to say... you don't even need PK careful on... as long as you use the eight pounds of gray matter located between your left ear, and right ear. Callia only turned pk careful back on recently, because I accidentally attacked who walked into a room I was bashing stuff with... and had the name of what I was bashing in his name...

I never liked having to take the time to declare when I wanted to jump someone, mainly because I always forgot to and ruined my surprise... but I jump once in a blue moon, usually when someone is dicking around with friends or family.

And yes, setting up a squad of 'pwnage' at the aetherplex deserves every damn thing you got. It is groups and people that think that is ok, that are f***ing up the MMORPG world. Your five minutes of fun is no fun at all to the poor SOB who left his manse thinking "Oh, I am going to go on prime for a while...." Seriously dude, grow up, harden up, and deal with the fact that YOU WERE WRONG. That simple, hell you admitted it in one of your posts. That said, your general back and forth contradictory arguments make it hard to determine exactly what you are saying, but I think your admission of guilt was pretty clear.

Wow. Personal Responsibility?

Yeah but it appears that this playerbase is geared towards the children who need the nanny (avenger) to watch over them and deal out the punishments. While in other IRE's there is no need for such a nanny, instead the children have developed (so to speak) and do not try and grief so much that an issue is needed.

I dunno, I really think avenger is dumb.

No system is perfect and I'm sure improvements can be made. However, I think the Avenger works well enough. I simply do not like a system where you can be issued if you kill someone and the admin can subjectively determine if it was "rp appropriate" or not. Either you end up with a system with layers of rules based on precedents or a system where no one is quite sure what is appropriate and charges of bias and dissatisfaction reign. The Avenger is here to stay, he's a part of our history and culture, he provides an atmosphere of safety for many players, and he doesn't interfere where conflict should be directed (i.e., other planes).

Exactly.

Both systems have pros and cons, and it really depends on the pov. Someone who's on the receiving end of excessive PK will enjoy the protection avenger gives, while combat heavy people get pissed when punished for a completely valid kills. It really is a complicated issue, even without taking flaws and loopholes of the Avenger system into consideration.

The biggest irk I have with avenger is why the hell should I have to declare someone who is already attacking me? I think that is just some type of flaw, but other than that... I don't really care much for it, but it normally never bothers me that avenger is here. Its only when people do some wierd crap causing me to have to declare someone attacking me that irks me.

Speaking of annoying things in the Avenger system, I HATE how people who have suspect on you can attack you when you're in enemy territory without losing suspect... making you unable to hit back.

And when people run into enemy territory, then run out again, so if you kill them you get suspect.

And how off-plane most bashing areas are immune to avenger so people who want to grief others can do it effortlessly anyway.

By "off-plane bashing areas" you mean Astral and Catacombs? Cause... those are the only ones... and 2 bashing areas out of all of them being open PK isn't bad.

And Earth, Water, Faethorn if you happen to be passing through, and every aetherbubble.

And um, all the ones that enemy you.

Agree agree agree 100%