i did have tahtai active as part of the form, but i think once i got him off balance, and passed the 1st combo, into the 2nd and 3rd. he was pretty much screwed. No shmoking for you mr god guy

i reviewed the log again. You got into third form before he was in trouble.

He failed to hit once, and hit your gut without hindering effect. Taking you into form three

So if you're a warrior using a two-handed weapon, and you're fighting an acro monk, and you miss twice (which is still quite possible with all the arties you can get and trans skills that might factor in), and they hit their third form, you should always lose?

No, I wouldn't think so...headslam and shield could help.

Just to make it clear, I'm not overly annoyed at this loss. On top of the fact I made some mistakes, my kata triggers are far from complete. After a total rehaul of the mechanics of my system, I have yet to review kata and its specs, so it's not as efficient as it will be. Nor does it add deepwounds when a monk hits at the moment, if I remember right.

Even so, I do think that, under any circumstance, no class should be able to keep someone off balance for that long, whether they made a mistake or not. I believe the tahtetso are aware of this, anyway.

no - but it was a bad example. How can you say that you _ALWAYS_ lose just cause ilyarin lost once? Your jumping to conclusions. Making your accusations wrong. (If your gona make conclussions find someone who can actully fight a tahtetso and ask them, what they think of it.)

He didn't cure deepwounds.

He didn't smoke rebounding.

She was the one attacking first, he was counter attacking and failed to hinder two attacks making her able to get to third form first.


Its very much possible to survive a bomolini onslaught, but if you dont do the above, expect to die to

I think none monk players could concentrate on their class of improvements instead of shouting nerf others. Monks are behing developed, there are plenty of 'strong' combinations of other classes. Leave it to the envoy to sort it out not rants, cause these pointing fingers just annoys people. (Or just me )

He didn't cure deepwounds and he was taking 2000 damage a combo, whihc means higher wounds then heavy.

Ilyarin the issue is kata forms, not unbalance.

You can stack stun, paralyse, unbalance, entangle the same way.

But if you let a monk reach 3rd form, somewhere you made a mistake. Its hard enough to go into second form as a monk.

EDIT: Multiple posts in a row for no reason are discouraged. You can edit your previous posts with the button in the bottom right. They've been merged for now.

This post is very, very wrong, on many levels.

First. Most classes cannot stack stun, paralyze, unbalance, or entangle the same way, because using them either 1) Means they aren't using the rest of their offense (entanglement), or 2) They just can't stack (paralysis takes 1s to cure at trans discipline). Warrior off-balance, with BCs, is specifically coded so it can't stack well and keep someone permanently off-balance. Each subsequent hit only adds half a second of off-balance time, so even if both hit, that's just +1 second from a 3 second combo. Thus, Monks are the only ones who are actually able to do this permanently.

Second. Not every class has passive hindering. Expecting a class without passive hindering to go out of their way to hinder once every 3 attacks is wrong-- that's a 33% reduction in offense, and that assumes absolutely zero dodges from Acrobatics. If the Monk dodges two hindering things in a row, or uses Tripleflash... well, hey, you're in a pickle. Expecting to have to hinder from time to time as a strategy is important, but a 33% reduction of Warrior damage/wounding is, essentially, immunity.

Now, you're partly right in saying that the issue is in forms-- the forms really shouldn't speed up over time, while starting out slower. However, the off-balance is an issue, because it's stacking (and letting people stack up off-balance is NOT balanced).

the issue with disable-ing in later forms with bomolni would remain, it would just look diffrently with other skills but same result. (paralyse + prone, prone + stun, paralyse + stun, entangle + stun etc, etc etc...)

And xenthos thats like saying, expect a monk not to go for 'pindown' tactics and you lessen his offense by 50%.. Its something you just got to do, or you get countered.

That's the point. Fix the off-balance so that it isn't permanently disabling.

As to the second: That right there is the problem you're not seeing. Expecting Monks to be immune to any class without passive hindering is wrong. A monk's offense isn't "lowered" because they can no longer keep someone permanently off-balance-- they're still spamming attacks, and even if they did just 1 damage more than is being cured, they'd still eventually get the kill.

Now, once this is done and forms don't have fluctuating speed, it's possible to examine the prone damage increase and consider modifications to that as well. Keeping someone permanently proned/pinned while having your full damage offense going is wrong. Moondancers need to reapply aeon, Shadowdancers need to reapply sleep, etc (yes, this is simplified considerably, but you get the point-- trying to hold down a lock is supposed to take some work, and no, letting a form go three steps is not work).

The moment you say, "Well, you let the form go three stages so you deserved to lose," you have an issue that needs to get fixed ASAP. Three forms is something like 7 seconds (first form, 4s, second form, 3s, third form).

Tzu: It doesn't matter how many wounds they have or what they're parrying. It simply should not be possible to keep someone off-balance for 20 seconds under any circumstances.

missed my point.

@Xenthos & Shamarah disabling can take show by other means.

Paralyse, Stun, Prone, Throw, Entangle.

( and shamarah couldn't you write a choke fix after behing a shadow dancer and be advocating it since all those ents in choke, pretty much does the same thing. Or a warriors pingleg + mantakaya, or legtendon. )

The issue is the kata speed it reaches in later forms, afflictions will go so rapidly you wont be able to keep up. (Its hard to reach this state, so many things must go wrong for your opponent)

Fixing bomolini would solve nothing, other then replace one skill with the other in next form. (Best I can think of is, learn from your mistakes and dont let a monk reach form three, it isn't hard to accomplish.)

I already countered those, showing that they can't be done permanently. Disabling for short periods of time happens. Permanent? No. Repeat Shamarah's post. A warrior just doing pinleg isn't going to kill you by himself if you're sipping, because while the weapons are in you he/she cannot attack. If he's rending, you can clot/writhe out of the other one very easily. If he attacks anywhere but the leg with one weapon, you're out. Offense is *dramatically* lowered while doing this.

A Monk's is not.

So far as I know, rend doesn't take balance, so you can keep pinlegging people over and over. It's hardly a sacrifice of offence. You also can't cure a fair amount of stuff while pinlegged.

That being said, being knocked off-balance this much is still too good, but I wouldn't bring pinleg into it if I were you!

But if you rend, it does not stop the writhe that is currently going-- so if I rend, you'll writhe out of the other one (or the new one) immediately, and get out of the other one before balance is back.

That said, some envoys have been trying to fix it for grapples, and I've raised this as an issue each time. Also, Pinleg is also up for a softening at the moment. If anything, that just emphasizes the need that this needs to be fixed as well!

The issue is not monk bomolini, paralyse, or prone the issue is monks forms, the speed how all our skills work in. We are designed to reach those later forms(& higher deepwounds) to archive our pressure, what happends is our pressure is to great and our first forms are too weak.

It all happend in this log. He got severely wounded, didn't cure it and she got into the later forms.

Thing is, fix the things in your guild before you point fingers on others. It annoys everyone when someone points fingers.

Already up for fixing. So! I guess that means you'll agree it's time for this to be fixed as well? Perfect.

Xenthos its the monks design how they attack, i expect a change when new monk guild is done to see some change on how it works, but changing bomolini atm, would change _nothing_. (atm, learn from your mistakes, dont let a monk get into third form, it isn't hard)

It certainly sounds like you're doing your best not to read any points, and just say the same things repeatedly without backing. Bomolini needs to be fixed-- and it certainly would change something if it was unstackable. It wouldn't be used to stack huge balance loss. That right there's a significant difference!

go ahead and try, your still gona moan when the next disabling combo hits you.

The only change i can think of that would reasonble address the problem is change the scale between forms, make the first ones abit more efficient and reduce the efficiency of the later ones, abit.

Grapple/throw uses up 2/3 of a Monk's offense to hold it (grapple/throw/hit). It's something I've already had significant-length discussions with Myndaen about. I also have been pinlegged, and I haven't complained about it because I also know how much more avoidable it is than this (and, as I said, it's also being weakened).

That said-- I do believe I will be speaking with the Envoys about getting this fixed ASAP. Thanks!