Ban Lack of Rants

by Estarra

Back to The Polling Place.

Unknown2007-12-29 23:05:04
Important issues get their own threads.
Unknown2007-12-29 23:06:12
QUOTE(Arak @ Dec 29 2007, 04:59 PM) 471143
The problem is, however, that people with serious issues or comments that should be addressed are lost forever in the hundreds of pages of meaningless trash.


If you idea is important enough that you don't want it lost with the hundreds of pages of trash, it shouldn't be in lack of rants type threads.
Arel2007-12-29 23:08:08
QUOTE(Arak @ Dec 29 2007, 05:59 PM) 471143
I personally can't stand the existence of any of these extended topics, be they Lack of Rants, Lack of Raves, or any other gigantic thread in which most of the posts are pointless. All meaning is lost in these threads. I have tried on several occasions to try and read these threads, and what it amounts to is I go back several pages from the last one, reading all the posts on the way, and still don't find anything that actually interests me or means anything significant. But, you might say, that's the point of these threads. The problem is, however, that people with serious issues or comments that should be addressed are lost forever in the hundreds of pages of meaningless trash. On top of this, new threads that are actually interesting barely ever appear anymore, because so many people have been taken in by the giganto-topics. So, instead of being heard regarding important issues, people instead have their ideas skimmed by one or two people before they disappear in a torrent of flames and pointless small-talk. So, what I'm trying to say is, these huge topics aren't topics at all: the point of a forum is to organize the way people discuss things and these threads only serve to remove any semblance of organization from the discussions. And that is why they should be banned.


The point of having ability to make new threads is so that your important issues are not lost in a sea of babble, drivel, rants, and raves. If you have a suggestion for a new game mechanic, an issue on why Avenger isn't working, or how to make aetherspace a more viable conflict zone, you make a new topic. Nothing that requires important discussion belongs in Lack of Rants or Lack of Raves. The things that go in there are getting your first guild favour, getting killed by a grave digger while exploring the blasted lands, or winning a commune contest. If is not Lack of Rants fault that you don't know where to put your important ideas and topics of discussion.
Reiha2007-12-29 23:11:46
QUOTE(Arak @ Dec 29 2007, 02:59 PM) 471143
I personally can't stand the existence of any of these extended topics, be they Lack of Rants, Lack of Raves, or any other gigantic thread in which most of the posts are pointless. All meaning is lost in these threads. I have tried on several occasions to try and read these threads, and what it amounts to is I go back several pages from the last one, reading all the posts on the way, and still don't find anything that actually interests me or means anything significant. But, you might say, that's the point of these threads. The problem is, however, that people with serious issues or comments that should be addressed are lost forever in the hundreds of pages of meaningless trash. On top of this, new threads that are actually interesting barely ever appear anymore, because so many people have been taken in by the giganto-topics. So, instead of being heard regarding important issues, people instead have their ideas skimmed by one or two people before they disappear in a torrent of flames and pointless small-talk. So, what I'm trying to say is, these huge topics aren't topics at all: the point of a forum is to organize the way people discuss things and these threads only serve to remove any semblance of organization from the discussions. And that is why they should be banned.

Bolded 1: Perhaps meaning is loss - and in some cases that is good, when it comes to a stupid/short rant. But why embelish and validate something small and pointless by giving it its own topic thread? And in defense of Lack of Raves, sometimes it's meaningless, but it's (mostly) a positive thread, which creates a general good feeling among members of the community. People like to censor.gif and let off steam.
Bolded 2: If it's important, it wouldn't get skimmed over because the person would make a new, seperate topic. Lack of Rants was pinned, which made it easier to see the other threads in that section (for me, anyway).

And wow, ninja'd by a dozen people. Drats. losewings.gif
Noola2007-12-29 23:14:57
QUOTE(Arak @ Dec 29 2007, 04:59 PM) 471143
I personally can't stand the existence of any of these extended topics, be they Lack of Rants, Lack of Raves, or any other gigantic thread in which most of the posts are pointless. All meaning is lost in these threads. I have tried on several occasions to try and read these threads, and what it amounts to is I go back several pages from the last one, reading all the posts on the way, and still don't find anything that actually interests me or means anything significant. But, you might say, that's the point of these threads. The problem is, however, that people with serious issues or comments that should be addressed are lost forever in the hundreds of pages of meaningless trash. On top of this, new threads that are actually interesting barely ever appear anymore, because so many people have been taken in by the giganto-topics. So, instead of being heard regarding important issues, people instead have their ideas skimmed by one or two people before they disappear in a torrent of flames and pointless small-talk. So, what I'm trying to say is, these huge topics aren't topics at all: the point of a forum is to organize the way people discuss things and these threads only serve to remove any semblance of organization from the discussions. And that is why they should be banned.



Serious issues, important events, elaborately concocted ideas - these are all things that would deserve their own thread and I'm pretty sure everyone knows this. Big general threads like Lack of Rants, Lack of Raves, Quotes, etc. are for little minute things that you feel the need to share or get off your chest.

Do you really think that "Oh Yay! I've gotten my first ever True Favour!" should deserve it's own Thread? Or isn't it better posted in the Lack of Raves Thread?

What about "Crap! I totally forgot to glance ahead and died to a gravedigger. What a newb thing to do!" Do you really think something like that needs its own thread?
Unknown2007-12-29 23:28:27
QUOTE
People like to censor.gif and let off steam.


The question is whether or not you need an audience or not. If you're just letting off steam, why do you care if other people read it or not?

Now, if you want an audience, or somebody to co-miserate with or are looking for sympathy, then post a new thread. But if you're too lazy to do so or don't think it's important, then maybe it's not worth the energy. Just scream "aw, crap" or whatever and get on with your life.

Basically, a forum is for communication and debate. The question is whether or not a thread used as a "punching bag" is worth the maintenance or not. A "mega-thread" is harder to maintain. If people get out of line on another thread it can be locked, otherwise the admin have to go in and delete or edit posts.
Xenthos2007-12-29 23:30:04
QUOTE(Phred @ Dec 29 2007, 06:28 PM) 471153
The question is whether or not you need an audience or not. If you're just letting off steam, why do you care if other people read it or not?

Now, if you want an audience, or somebody to co-miserate with or are looking for sympathy, then post a new thread. But if you're too lazy to do so or don't think it's important, then maybe it's not worth the energy.

The numbers (forum-goers, so it's quite relevant) aren't agreeing with you at the moment.

Edit: And to your edit-- would you be wanting the Admin to just close all the little rant threads that Daedalion makes whenever he feels like ranting? Warn him? Ban him? Do that for everyone else? Who decides if it's a "good rant"? That's certainly more energy wasted.
Iola2007-12-29 23:33:44
For the people complaining that they're not readable as threads - they're not meant to be. These 'minirant' threads, which is basically what we're talking about, are not conversations. Readers dip into them as much as the posters. If that annoys you, don't read them. That's perfectly possible.

As for Moderators reading them, you know that's really not that much of a problem. You just keep on top of things. It's just the same as having 15 whole new threads to read. In fact in many ways it's nicer. I'm more than confident that our mods can keep up with these threads and recognise the difference between ranting and flaming.
Unknown2007-12-29 23:33:59
You gotta wait a few more days before the final tally is done...but I think Shiri and the other mods had reasons for doing that and Veonira for making her requests and Vis got the gist of the argument.

(And who says this poll is binding anyway?)

My objection is basically mega-threads are counterproductive, not that people shouldn't rant. Even quotes is a bit hard to work. I personally wish we had a better quote thread system--one for true in-game funnies, others for what you guys say in OOC channels or IRC, since I'd rather read the in-game bloopers and funnies and ignore the rest.

EDIT: Xenthos, the rants thread sometimes does get out of control--that was the whole reason there was a decision to shut it off. When other threads get out of control, it can be locked. A megathread can't, so they have to do more. I'd actually like to hear what the forum mods like Shiri and Daganev think is easier to handle from an administrative perspective. I'm interested in the difficulty involved.
Reiha2007-12-29 23:36:00
QUOTE(Phred @ Dec 29 2007, 03:28 PM) 471153
The question is whether or not you need an audience or not. If you're just letting off steam, why do you care if other people read it or not?

Knowing someone might glance at it can be just as nice as someone listening to you. Some people don't want to keep it in. People also joked around about their minor follies in LoR; it wasn't always full of spite.
QUOTE
Now, if you want an audience, or somebody to co-miserate with or are looking for sympathy, then post a new thread. But if you're too lazy to do so or don't think it's important, then maybe it's not worth the energy.
Not worth the energy of a new thread or its own topic, but since it's meaningless, it gets thrown in with the other ones in LoR.
QUOTE
Basically, a forum is for communication and debate. The question is whether or not a thread used as a "punching bag" is worth the maintenance or not.

Happy, nice, or not, it's still communication. Rules are posted and obvious. Not always followed, just as they're not always likely to be followed in seperate topics.

Edit: And to your edit, is dealing with the annoyance of the community going to be easier than locking a popular thread down?
Arix2007-12-29 23:39:30
I should point out that the 'RL' lack of rants thread is just fine, and does not promote as much negativity as the IC one. You may now return to ranting about not having somewhere to rant
Unknown2007-12-29 23:47:24
Not to toot my own horn, but I started a minor rant thread as an experiment (thanks Laysus for providing the ammo tongue.gif) and I think it's an example of a good rants thread that harkens back to the days of yore: http://forums.lusternia.com/index.php?showtopic=14433

a few dozen replies on a minor issue, some fun babbling, and now the thread will die off and go away because the topic has run its course.

It's so much more interesting and engaging than a giant thread full of pages and pages of disjointed, unconnected discussion. It focuses discussion and makes it less of an ADD-fest broken up by periods of page-long whinging about X org or Y guild.

Now I suppose there's an argument to be made for the ADD-style disjointed, hateful banter that comprises the hundreds of pages of lack of rants. Personally, I prefer a more focused style of ranting, because it tends to be more lighthearted. That's how idiots used to be, before lack of rants.

Coincidentally, the main major concern about lack of rants is the negativity it breeds.

So once again, I urge the administration: keep ti closed, but not because of the negativity itself. That will fade when the format of ranting changes.
Reiha2007-12-29 23:48:15
QUOTE(Phred @ Dec 29 2007, 03:33 PM) 471156
(And who says this poll is binding anyway?)

Nobody. But the fact Estarra created it and is willing to listen, gives us an impression people's concerns... might be considered?
QUOTE

EDIT: Xenthos, the rants thread sometimes does get out of control--that was the whole reason there was a decision to shut it off. When other threads get out of control, it can be locked. A megathread can't, so they have to do more. I'd actually like to hear what the forum mods like Shiri and Daganev think is easier to handle from an administrative perspective. I'm interested in the difficulty involved.

That depends if people are really going to make a lot of tiny threads versus small ones in reaction to this censorship. Then it'd be moot point. If this was done for their sake, to make their jobs easier, I can understand. However, they could have added a couple of new mods, since the team seems pretty small - this community seems to be growing, topics are going to grow, too.
Daereth2007-12-29 23:50:51
QUOTE(Phred @ Dec 29 2007, 05:33 PM) 471156
(And who says this poll is binding anyway?)


Estarra did make it you know, I don't see why it wouldn't be.. unless they are just curious.

Edit: Ninja'd by reiha sad.gif
Reiha2007-12-29 23:51:13
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ Dec 29 2007, 03:47 PM) 471159
a few dozen replies on a minor issue, some fun babbling, and now the thread will die off and go away because the topic has run its course.

Until someone makes a new topic. Or brings it back. Just like in LoR.
Arix2007-12-29 23:55:37
Nerf lich


oh wait, wrong thread


oh wait, I'm Magnagoran


Nerf...Handmaiden?
Reiha2007-12-29 23:56:35
QUOTE(Arix @ Dec 29 2007, 03:55 PM) 471163
Nerf lich
oh wait, wrong thread
oh wait, I'm Magnagoran
Nerf...Handmaiden?

dots.gif
Unknown2007-12-29 23:59:12
Arix just likes to derail threads for attention, ignore him.

I was just pointing out that the vote might be counteracted by what the admins think or the moderators, or some kind of compromise might be taken, that's all. It could be a "non-binding referendum", as they love to say in my state. (I can't remember if there was a vote to make Cannabis legal in the state or not).

I'd still like to hear more about if a megathread is more or less work for forum moderators or not. I certainly think we should listen to the people, but I'd like to hear all the pros and cons first.
Morgfyre2007-12-30 01:14:26
QUOTE(Verithrax @ Dec 29 2007, 03:33 PM) 471116
May I just pipe in to say this might be the stupidest, most insidious, most viciously wrong, most horrifyingly appalling thing in popular wisdom? Because, really, it's wrong, it's stupid, it's downright Orwellian. Think about it. Our civilisation is built on the right of saying things that aren't nice; any mother that actually says something to her son is being... well, I'm not going to throw the words "child abuse" around like so much stale confetti, but she wouldn't be acting like a good mother at all.


I don't think there is anything "Orwellian" (which appears to be the talking point catchphrase of the day when it comes to discussing moderators) about manners, and nor do I ascribe to the fairly ludicrous claim that it is child abuse for people to be taught manners. Having the right to say whatever you want makes no claims about whether it is socially appropriate to do so.

Here's an easy way to test this idea: walk up to a stranger on the street, tell them "go censor.gif yourself" (make no apologies, of course - manners are Orwellian) and then confess you are lost and ask them for directions. I doubt that the majority of people will be willing to help you. Or, easier, try this with your boss before asking for a pay raise.
Arix2007-12-30 01:35:30
I don't like to derail threads, I do it so people have to pause and think about the interruption, and maybe while doing so, think about whether or not whatever they were about to say was really that constructive or important