So recently I was investigating how to join one of the communes for a friend. I was expecting it to be as easy as celest. You know, walk up to someone who can citizen, then that person will ask on city if none objects.. and if none, your in. Very simple. In rare cases where there are doubts, it gets passed to the star council or some other earl.. but that is rare.. usually, and particularly if that person has no known record of hostility towards the city, he/she just gets accepted fast.

But I was surprised when i was told i needed to find three sponsors, then have an interview with the ambasaddor..

Now this is doable and im not complaining.. its just that im curious as to why that is so.. because:

1. I thought glomdoring wanted more people?
2. I was told that you need a reason to join. Like maybe some viable rp-reason i guess. Like you suddenly realized you should belong in the forrest. However, what if the person just wants to try something new, or just be with his friends, or some other not so deep, shallow reason? I think he/she will not pass the interview..

Does magnagora do that kind of thing too? Or is it just one more rp-flavour to differentiate the commune from the cities? i..e both cities have a more relaxed acceptance policy..

Anyhow:

My initial impression of it is, the system is designed to weed out the supplicants and accept only the "right kind" of applicants.. which is reasonable. But it feels too much like going thru a job interview. In the end, i just adviced my friend to create just an alt and bypass all the hassle.

and also: In my opinion, such relationships should go both ways.. that is to say, maybe you should let the people in and give him/her a trial period first.. and then after some time - maybe a year, the commune and the player can decide if they are really comfortable with each other? I mean put yourself in the other persons shoes.. he will leave position, guild and friends to join you.. but wait a minute son, you need to do a quest for us.. -- it felt like that and so my friend felt kinda unwanted actually about it all (This is assuming glom/seren wanted more people.. if not, this argument is invalid)

Im sure there are perfectly good reasons why entering a commune is designed that way.. but it seemed just an added hoop to me.. And admitedly, ive only known celest having spent my entire time there.. but there doesnt seem to be a problem with its more easier acceptance policy..

any thoughts?

Blacktalon has a no-red-tape special going on right now for people with brains and no history.

The process you have been set to go through is for those who have been in realms long enough to have a reputation or particular mindset - experience rating as a marker of that. It is also for those who were established in old communities. Sponsors are so that multiple people in the commune can give a clear view on if you would do well in Glomdoring, and to your intent - usually though, this is not much of a hassle. Most I've found, you can ask and they'll say 'okay'.

The interview - is the personal preference of the Ambassador, as you approached Tajalli. It is a conversation of "why do you want to join Glomdoring - do you understand what life in Glomdoring is like, that Glomdoring ideally comes first above all things, etc". All of those that Tajalli welcomes, gets a little conversation like this - as again, often times, sponsors don't ask. They just nod and say yes, unless they've some predisposition to say no.

In Glomdoring RP - Glomdoring comes first. So, there is some 'screening' for those who want to come in from outside places. Three sponsors is the standard - and, it's been made easier as who can be sponsors has changed to include more people.

And yes, if someone just wants to 'try something new' - that isn't something that will 'fly' with Glomdoring. Glomdoring is a different lifestyle in theology, and thus, just declaring you're a ship passing in the night isn't something that is, nor should be, easily stomached.

EDIT: // As to Tajalli's holding the 'interview' for after the sponsors are found, that is so that her view isn't biased on her own - but supported or tipped by the views of her peers. She wants the applicant to have the support and have shown others that they're a good candidate to the forest, than just her giving a 'ok' and the mechanics of then needing to find sponsors.

Um, this isn't especially onerous. It might seem like a lot, but -

1) You have to have a guild in mind to join, so you have to get their approval, and that's one sponsor right there...
2) The ambassador thing is fair enough, because that's your approval to join the org itself...
3) Meaning that you need two character references. To give you an idea how hard they are to get, I talked to the first two people I saw and asked if they'd sponsor, and they just said 'OK'.

Given Caedryn's history (ie, former Hartstone GM/GC and former Serenguard GC), that's not bad at all, and it should be harder for me than your friend - I had been enemied to every guild + crowspirit til recently, for example. It's really not worth complaining about, IMO.

I think this is one of the reasons why Glomdoring's active population has been consistantly low. This was discussed in another thread, and I still think that any random person who has not done anything at all wrong to the org they want to join should be given the opportunity to try it out without having to create alts or reshaping the entire RP of their character to be one of extreme patriotism to the org.

And there's the conflict. Having people taking a look and liking it would be grande, but as Glom's ideal mentality is "Glom first, ourselves later," having someone prance in and say "Oh, I don't plan on staying, I'm just taking a look" wouldn't fly. It's easy enough to give a pretty answer - or even be honest of it with "I'm trying to find my path, and Glomdoring may be part of it. I will do my best while within the commune" would be fine. And - generally, those who want to enter that haven't racked up a reputation for themselves don't have much of a problem.

I fell under the "Narsrim rule" for rejoining Glom.

Yes, you needed an extra sponsor or two. Oh heavens no!

Nobody's complained yet, at least to me.

I am joking. It wasn't hard at all. Too easy in my oppinion, but hey, I can't complain.

If it makes you feel better, the Narsrim rule started getting applied more liberally because Narsrim was being kept out, not because of what most of the people trying to get in did. "But he raided too, so he should get the same treatment!" argument can't be made with a straight face if you were a Glom back then. It's the sort of nonsense that makes you want to reinstitute martial law.

Orrr you can just walk right up to Brennan and ask him to induct you, if you haven't been disqualified for certain reasons. If you've been disqualified, you need a few sponsors. Okay!

Orrrr...join the Blacktalon while there's no bureaucracy to fight and three people rubber stamping all reasonable entrance requests!

Still have to get into Glom in the first place, and Brennan also rubberstamps people into the Blacktalon.

There's a nifty trick you can do when you have three people rubberstamping entrance requests.

When Callia tried to join Glomdoring a while back, she was told that it was probably not a place for her, but was given an ok pending a one month 'think time.' At the end of the time, I agreed with the assessment made, and then I was enemied for wasting their time when I agreed with them?

Well, leaving one org for another isnt that easy.. particularly for a long time resident.. so "taking a look" at this instance means "thinking hard and deciding if its the best thing for himself" and not "i dont plan on staying long". It might be that he might end up not staying long.. that is certainly possible.. but he goes into the situation planning on staying.. only he doesnt know if its the best thing for himself so the "take a look" approach.. Most people have doubts.. I met very few who knew exactly what they wanted in life.. most stumbled along and found something along the road worthwhile..

so in that regards, i see nothing wrong with taking a look. see, it might be that at first you dont love a place.. but as time goes on, you grow to like it more and more and one day you wake up thinking you couldnt leave said place for anything... Some things takes time.. sometimes it not love at first sight so to speak.. blocking someone off at the very first denies both the parties a chance for something good..

But since its rp-reason then its fine i guess..

Actually.. im not complaining.. but rather is wondering why the two communes and the two cities have very different philosophies regarding the matter..

now, as to what is the better way.. that is a topic for another day..

Serenwilde's policy isn't all that different from Glomdoring's by the sound of it actually. Experienced players from another organization need 3 sponsors, one of which from the guild they wish to join. There is a call for dissention about the person joining, and if the person has all their sponsors and no dissensions only then do they get brought in. But any new player fresh from the Portal can be brought in.

As for why the two communes and two cities have very different views on the matter, that's easy to answer-- they have very different views on everything. Part of what makes Lusternia so fun is that each nation is unique. It's no surprise then that they have different views on new people.

Serenwilde's is probably going to be made even easier shortly though. We could use it.

I'm sure everyone's will be made shorter now that denizens can welcome and induct regardless.

I think that, generally Nezha, the reasons you've outlined are related to the RP. While yes, Glomdoring is somewhat lacking in the player numbers field, they don't want to sacrifice their RP to try and combat that. Their RP is a very guarded one, involving commitment and devotion to the cause, and should not be something to be taken lightly.

Celest, (in theory) has more of a missionary-type approach to things, and so would be happy to welcome any more converts to the light. Magnagora is happy to spread the glory of the taint. Serenwilde... let's just say they're being cautious for the sake of cautiousness.

(Note that these are not necessarily the org's official view on the matters, but my personal take on things, based on having characters in all four orgs at various points.)