I tried joining Glomdoring for a while i was honestly told You cant be undead. while standing next to undead npcs. Was told i should learn about glomdoring while knowing more about its history than 70% of the people that live there tryed to talk to a a guild member for blacktalon and got why do you want to know. The idea of All for the glomdoring is what stops people from joining, you cant be for glomdoring if your not part of it and you cant be part of it if your not all for it. Its a loop.

Yes, you can't be undead and live in Glomdoring. We cure undeath upon entry. Yes, you were probably told that right in front of an undead NPC. You'd be wrong if you think the average Glom respects Brennan and Rowena with more than a begrudging "Ok, you were here first."

As for the rest of it, I'm not sure if it's a poor grasp of English syntax or you're trying to claim that not even your friend in the commune could find out about Crow's teachings, conveniently located at CHELP CROW.

The only reason Rowena's still around is because she went out and birthed the Shadowfaeling race, which is tied to the Glomdoring and its Great Spirits.

The *only* reason. Viravain was going to do away with her once she passed on the teachings of Night until she did this.

Not many other Undead can perform such a feat, so they don't get a "pass" (and no, that doesn't mean they're really respected-- Rowena spent ages spitting on everyone, which is why pretty much all the older-folk dislike her). Undead are unnatural. Why would we welcome 'em? We can use them and manipulate them, sure, for the Good of the Glomdoring. We don't have a law saying they can't wander the Commune (like Serenwilde does). We just don't feel Undead should be a member of a Nature Commune.

I'm reading a lot of "I had to jump through x amount of hoops that were ridiculous and lame." and while I sympathize that what I hear is indeed ridiculous and/or lame, it is in no way representative of Glomdoring, Glomdoring law, or even the belief of most people I know. Most people are happy to be a sponsor if there's no history. Some people require you converse with them for five to ten minutes about why you want to join. My reasons for joining Glomdoring when I was asked was "Glomdoring looks interesting, I think I'd like it here." Tajalli has also recently expanded the amount of people who can be sponsors.

So, I'm sorry if you had an unfortunate experience, but this is not the run of the mill experience for those who wish to join Glomdoring. I'm not sorry if you have to talk to some one if you're a non-newbie who wants to join.

As to why things are this way, it could have been that back in the early days when CT Does anyone have a problem with Magalopolis joins? was the admission standard (I don't know if it ever was this way in Glom or Seren, just providing ideas) people would make it in and then others would log in, be very opposed to Megalopolis joining, and that's just a mess of trouble. Or, it could be that Serenwilde and Glomdoring or more selective of who joins them from outside.

Xavius, Verithrax, you guys will know this. What's it called when you disagree with a proposition, and therefore it is assumed that you advocate its opposite? That seems to happen a lot around here. It's got to have a name.

False dichotomy?

Bifurcation, of which false dichotomy is a more specific form. I don't think there's a more specific bifurcation species for that particular issue, though, or it might be better classified as bifurcation with straw man.

I'm pretty sure I asked at one point if we could get Brennan and Rowena un-undeadified.

If When we get a god again I'll do that again.

I hereby coin this fallacy: Bifurcation Man, and declare him the official forum superhero (with Shiri's OK).

If the policies in both Forests are relatively similar then any hoops that you have to jump through were set up by you. If you are a newbie, you don't have any trouble. Whisked right in.

If you have been a part of a nation friendly to the Forest (or even unfriendly) and have not made a general nuisance of yourself, finding a sponsor should be easy enough. In those cases, when I've been asked to be the sponsor, the longest I've ever taken in an "interview" is a few minutes just to learn why they decided to come live with us. A few tiny hoops that take little time to hop and bam, you're in.

Then there are the third type of people-- people with extensive histories of either direct assault against the Forest or being a general annoyance and nuisance to the entire Basin. There are more hoops for them because they've set themselves up for it. In those cases, sponsors will be harder to find, you will need to prove yourself a little more, and there will be more time taken in private discussion and referendums. That's the price you pay for your past. Sad, but true. And just in case, I'm not talking about anyone in this thread, so don't slay me .

I've never really understood the whole anti-undead position in Glomdoring, mainly because all non-nature spirits are undead (Grutina, the Crow skill spirits, etc), the Voice of Mahalla is undead, etc. There was a time when Viravain disliked the undead, but they eventually proved their worth to her by spawning the shadow faeling race. It's an interesting bit of player-driven roleplay that persists, but I'm not sure what trying to force them all out would accomplish aside from getting rid of all the NPCs with strong historical importance to the commune.

Grutina's a recent addition, and, well... frankly, she's just Not Very Important. Like I said, we're fine *using/manipulating* the undead (our Crow Cloaks give us that direction). And the Undead didn't prove themselves to Viravain-- Rowena did, which (as I said) is the only reason she's still around. Brennan was tolerated because of his tie to Brother Crow, and the rest just are used for experience. (Re)Death to the zombies!

Also, Brennan/Rowena are both very... mrrh... which means whenever they say anything, respect for them (and undead in general) plummets.

I'd imagine it's also because you can't really say 'Glomdoring is untainted' when you have undead everywhere.

Serenwilde is full of undead spirits too, and they're not tainted!

The distinction is the source of undead status, though that might be splitting hairs.

One might class the spirit of Princess Marilynth as undead, but certainly not tainted. Whereas undead status brought on by the taint would seem to be 'taint flavored' undead.

See what I mean?

What Eldanien said.

There's RP precedent from other Divine that says "Spirits aren't actually Undead. Only reanimated beings with decaying bodies etc. etc. are undead, because... they're dead, and not." Or something like that. It was a big issue in Seren once upon a time.

Yep. We were wondering whether Chuchip was undead and Lisaera clearly said he isn't...reasoning was more like how undead are persistently re-alive and Chuchip is never disrupting the natural cycle, just kind of giving messages from beyond (or something.)

EDIT: Under that reasoning Marilynth wouldn't be undead either, and Ladantine would.

Honestly, Daganev loves the undead, and he's never been given reason not to. *shrug*

I'm really not sure where all the anti-undead stuff comes from either. Seems a pretty important aspect of Glomdoring's ability to survive and persist in any situation.

well when i dont see how you cannot respect somone who teaches all your novices most of your people and is the keeper of the central aspect of your forest the ravenwood.