Exactly what is the problem with it in group combat? How is it unfair?

You realize everyone else has monks right now that are immune to its most nasty effects leaving them with the best combatants inside of it and not Glomdoring?

Demesnes are situational, and largely this will be split 50/50 between who holds it. Even on ethereal it will even out because eight times out of ten you will liveforest serenwilde and make choking there impossible. Mages and druids need serious help if they can't recognise when it's time to get out of choke and use it to their advanatge. A passive demesne should beat fae any day of the week and their psionics trip/paralysis is enough to keep anyone from doing much until love potion fires. And dreamweaving... simply amazing within choke. Dealing with that shouldn't be impossible.

As far as bards... look around you. A cantor passively prones and blinds you within choke. A Spiritsinger passively sleeps and chills you. And a cacophony(who have the worse of the three) will hunger you over time. These skills are all made exponentially worse inside choke and as always.. they can dispell maelstrom inside and put up their own. Game over?

Warriors... we all get it about equal, with serens either having some nice tricks within stag or more importantly dark in moon (passive afflictions are awfully nice). Paladins you could say have a much better chance of inquisitioning you inside and Ur'Guard get some wonderful things to stop you... coldaura is nice in choke, but cruicify, shrivel, and on command disfiguring leaves them plenty to do.

Moondancers have a hard time of it, but only suffer a disadvantage 1 on 1 with a Shadowdancer. They still have fae and plenty ways of turning the fight in their favor. Comparing these two is like comparing Aquamancy and Geomancy though. One is offensive and on defensive... you can't and shouldn't do it, so stop trying to make them the same.

Guardians both have the advantage inside choke as a general rule. Nihilist can keep someone from ever attacking 100% of the time and a Celestine has plenty of tricks that work better than fae, I can tell you that much.


So I lay it before you again as to how it's unfair? In a group fight, with even odds, the side not casting it should have the advantage of getting a slightly faster start while one from the other side chokes and loses power. It is nothing more than a case of whining because people are spoiled and don't want to deal with it. Not that it's overpowered.

No, it's definitely because it's overpowered. I've explained this over and over again to so many people but I'll do it again just because of your amusingly aggressive tone (as if you were right.)

Whoever gets the choke ability gets all that setup. If Glomdoring has an advantage in a fight, it's -going- to win that fight because it's the one with choke. People come up with this bizarre logic of "monks have such and such an ability therefore they're fine in it" but at the end of the day this is largely nonsense. If you walk into a prepared Shadowdancer with hexes you are just going to die because they can mess you up faster than you can cure it, especially if you get unlucky with stupidity. If your team walks into a prepared Shadowdancer with hexes, maelstrom, blacktalon demesne, traps and god knows what else you're approximately 10* more ed than you would have been without choke. The same principle is well-known to like everyone who doesn't have choke and many people with it. This is why you will rarely notice Glomdoring choking in an opposing demesne if they intend to be in that room fighting. (They frequently do it just to annoy people, but ok.)

If any other org had the skill you'd see a similar problem, and outside of solo Shadowdancer combat (hi succumb) it's not even because their skills synergise especially well with it, although team drink helps a lot and makes up for missing team barghest. The problem is simply that choke is too good.

EDIT: Typoes.

Doesn't that instance sound a lot like walking into a Geomancer's carcered, rubbled, maelstromed, and whatever else demesne?

Yeah... I think that's overpowered too... that's why you don't walk into it?

EDIT: @Krellan Go pick up some monk skills then and let the party begin. With their offense, you're left to focus almost all of your attention on manually curing.

Choke is the most OP'ed skill in all of Lusternia. It can literally make someone like me, on nexus, fight well.

That's your whole defence?

What are you talking about, "Is that my whole defense"? That was -your- defense. I laid out clearly how everyone is on a level playing ground and -you- brought up it being overpowered because you can't willynilly walk your group into another prepared group.

I don't think I'm gonna be able to get the difference through to you if that's all you're going to say, is all. Just suffice it to say that it's hardly "being spoiled" or whining when the same skill is consistently the most complained about skill in the game outside of Lich and Trueheal, and we've been putting up with it for 2.75 or so RL years continuously.

i think what hyrtakos was pointing out is that if you walk into ANY prepared team you will have the same problem..its not just choke that causes this...if you walk your team into a prepared moondancer with hexes, maelstrom, hartstone demesne, traps and god knows what else you are just as screwed just in different ways....or even a nihilist with hexes, geo demense, maelstrom, traps, carcer rubble your also just as screwed..

Lame argument.

Lich and Trueheal get complained about MORE than choke, yet Only Choke is being replaced?

Obviously its not a question of how much the skill is complained about.

No, it's a matter of it actually being overpowered.

Choke one on one with prepared hexes is the sort of situation you definitely don't want to be in. The problem is amplified in groups. If something is mildly imbalanced one on one and wickedly imbalanced in groups, you generally change it.

lots of things arent fair if the person is completely pre-prepared, however if your fighting an sd one vs one then youll be starting out of choke generally not letting them put up everything first...and if they are deciding to sit in it just dont go in..or know what your doing when you do

That's a great plan! We'll just stay out of timed demesnes too.

if you cant cure and dont have protection scroll thats a good idea, if you can cure and do have the correct defences and offence youll be fine just like with choke..?

defences not just meaning ones on def but also your own tactics used to defend yourself..

Many people do, in fact, do just this. Hence the group sitting at the Megalith while Forren is wandering around in his demesne, chatting with each other.

It's easier to survive one-on-one against an SD if they're sitting in Choke (provided you have your own passive offense, or know when to tumble).

agree with synl, vs a hexen at least if you know when to tumble they cant scratch you..and youll slowly hurt them enough to get the kill..

You two must deal with the kind of hexists who don't know what sleep hexes are for.

Interesting thought experiment:

In one-on-one combat, are warriors with Choke overpowered? Is Choke for them useless, situational, good, or too good?

Er, I never stated quite what Silimaur mentioned. SDs are a powerful class, and can completely sleeplock you IF they bring the Choke to you - that is, they Choke after the fight has begun.

Choke is fine one-on-one.

It needs to be changed for group combat. Choke-dying-with-caster is the best suggestion so far.

Situational for axelords and pureblades, useless for bonecrushers and blademasters.