Choke

by Malarious

Back to Ideas.

silimaur2008-01-07 04:11:54
nothing stops your tumble as your not asleep? i dont get at all where your coming from..sd has wasted power + hexes victim is out curedup safe no problems nothing wasted ready to repeat...?
Krellan2008-01-07 04:13:20


EDIT: Yep, so I'm wrong. Carry on
Xavius2008-01-07 04:13:54
QUOTE(silimaur @ Jan 6 2008, 10:11 PM) 473942
nothing stops your tumble as your not asleep? i dont get at all where your coming from..sd has wasted power + hexes victim is out curedup safe no problems nothing wasted ready to repeat...?


No, see, you did fall asleep, because that's what sleep hexes do.

Let's try this the other way. How do Moondancers pull off sleeplocks?
Unknown2008-01-07 04:14:39
You cannot be forced to metawake off inside Choke.

Edit: To make this clearer, you should be acting whenever you are able to inside of Choke. 'Metawake off' requires you to be able to act - but you should already be sending an action then. An SD cannot pooka actions inside Choke because a (competent) fighter will take advantage of every chance he/she has to act. Thus, for SDs to attain a proper sleeplock on (competent) fighters, they cannot begin the fight in Choke.
silimaur2008-01-07 04:15:13
sleep hexes do nothing if you have metawake..how do you not get this..

untill you get this simple fact then i dont think there is any real way to explain anything about these scenarios to you
Hyrtakos2008-01-07 04:16:46
Right, as has been said before and even little birdies that know a thing or two about combat and can't post here would like to grind that point in a little more clearly.

"With the delay from command to action, coupled with a specific message from being forced, you should never... never ever ever get pooka'd to take metawake off."
Xavius2008-01-07 04:31:51
CODE
You order your mind to ensure you will not journey far into the dreamworld.
4554h, 4554m, 4026e, 10p, 18800en, 18800w elrx<>-
Trae raises his hand in greeting and says "Hi!"
4554h, 4554m, 4026e, 10p, 18800en, 18800w elrx<>-
You say, "When I tumble, sleep me!"
4554h, 4455m, 4026e, 10p, 18800en, 18779w elrx<>-
Ecclesiar Trae says, "You and ready?"
4554h, 4359m, 4026e, 10p, 18800en, 18772w elrx<>-
You begin to tumble agilely to the north.
4554h, 4170m, 4026e, 10p, 18300en, 18751w elr<>-
You tumble out of the room.
The Algontherine Hatchery.
The corrosiveness of the taint sickens the land. A hallway of stone stretches
itself as far as the eye can see, disappearing amongst the oddities that hang
from the ceiling above. An immeasurable amount of odd eggs line the wall,
hanging from metal hooks that hold the egg above the floor by several iron
chains that attach themselves to these mysterious eggs. No light sources can be
seen because of an intense aura that emanates from each egg, the silhouette of
creatures moving inside them causing the light to shift periodically. The air
about each egg seems to shift and quiver from the power that radiates from the
creatures inside, causing the room to vibrate with an unseen force of power. You
see a sign here instructing you that WARES is the command to see what is for
sale.
You see exits leading north and south.
4554h, 4074m, 4026e, 10p, 18320en, 18744w elr<>-
You must regain balance first.
4554h, 4074m, 4026e, 10p, 18320en, 18744w elr<>-
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
4554h, 4074m, 4026e, 10p, 18320en, 18744w elrx<>-
The Warehouse of Aetheric Marvels.
The corrosiveness of the taint sickens the land. Smaller than the room that
connects to it, this room has been carved from a massive piece of stone. High
above, a huge globe hangs suspended in the air as it spins slowly in a clockwise
circle. An anchor beam links the globe to several wooden shelves that have been
crafted into flat circles and attached to the beam that supports them. Thousands
of small figurines line each shelf, each one glowing softly with a disturbing
presence that causes the walls to shudder periodically. Radiating a quiet
pristine blue aura, the globe continues to turn of its own accord, as if
tracking the paths and maps of the basin as it grows and evolves. Ecclesiar Trae
is here. He wields a holy symbol of the light in his left hand. You see a sign
here instructing you that WARES is the command to see what is for sale.
You see a single exit leading north.
4554h, 4074m, 4026e, 10p, 18318en, 18744w elrx<>-
Your eyes sparkle with amusement.
4554h, 3978m, 4026e, 10p, 18338en, 18729w elrx<>-
You begin to tumble agilely to the north.
4554h, 3978m, 4026e, 10p, 17838en, 18729w elr<>-
Trae reaches over and gently squeezes your shoulder. You find yourself rapidly
becoming sleepier and sleepier.
You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.
4554h, 3978m, 4026e, 10p, 17838en, 18729w elrp<>-
You quickly pull yourself out of sleep.
4554h, 3978m, 4026e, 10p, 17838en, 18729w elrp<>-
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
4554h, 3776m, 4026e, 10p, 17878en, 18714w elrxp<>-
Pardon me?
4554h, 3776m, 4026e, 10p, 17878en, 18714w elrxp<>-
You must first raise yourself from the floor and stand up.
4554h, 3681m, 4026e, 10p, 17898en, 18707w elrxp<>-
You stand up and stretch your arms out wide.


But hrm. You all have a point with the delay on metawake.
Unknown2008-01-07 04:37:04
You know, its kind of funny that you guys post so much to argue and give bs sarcastic options, but not to actually comment on some of the genuine ideas that have been offered. This is what's wrong with both democracies and republics.
silimaur2008-01-07 04:46:34
i like my choke dont want it removed...thats why i wont give a different option..at least untill i can understand why its being removed..
Hyrtakos2008-01-07 05:15:14
I've already stated that having it eat hexes, having it drop on the caster's death, and making it uncastable in supermob rooms would all be a great move.

Destroying skills that make guilds unique is just a terrible thought in my opinion. Why should I have to go to Imperian to enjoy fighting within it? And furthermore... how do you reckon passive aeon not being worse than choke which affects the caster as well?
Verithrax2008-01-07 09:10:58
QUOTE(hyrtakos @ Jan 7 2008, 12:50 AM) 473912
@Verithrax Can you name a class that doesn't have passive effects or a way of turning the fae against the caster?

That's the point - Choke shuts down most ways of dealing with fae or demesnes, while leaving fae and demesnes untouched. That makes it ridiculously swingy; depending on what other skills you have and what skills your opponents have, and on the number of people around, it can be anything from not worth bothering with to entirely unfair. Thus, it's impossible to balance in its current state; maybe it would if it was only caster and target and given to a class that didn't rely so much on passive effects.
Unknown2008-01-07 16:41:11
QUOTE(hyrtakos @ Jan 7 2008, 05:15 AM) 473968
I've already stated that having it eat hexes, having it drop on the caster's death, and making it uncastable in supermob rooms would all be a great move.

Destroying skills that make guilds unique is just a terrible thought in my opinion. Why should I have to go to Imperian to enjoy fighting within it? And furthermore... how do you reckon passive aeon not being worse than choke which affects the caster as well?


what if your not a hex SD? or a Warrior?
Ashai2008-01-07 17:01:09
QUOTE(krin1 @ Jan 7 2008, 09:41 AM) 474113
what if your not a hex SD? or a Warrior?


Only a hexen can give six masked afflictions in about three seconds, in choke still. Choke is really only ridiculous with a hexen: healers at least completely rely on choke just to be decent, and... astrologers are just weird.

The ideas to make choke one on one and eat hexes and die on casters death are just dandy, coming from an SD, but what about, if it is one on one, what would happen if either party left the room?

Though, since choke will almost always backfire when an Ebonguard uses it, it wouldn't be unfair to make Ebonguard choke a little different... or completely different, for that matter. I imagine if it were something more like waning, it would be used.
Myndaen2008-01-07 17:12:03
QUOTE(Ashai @ Jan 7 2008, 12:01 PM) 474121
Only a hexen can give six masked afflictions in about three seconds, in choke still. Choke is really only ridiculous with a hexen: healers at least completely rely on choke just to be decent, and... astrologers are just weird.


I'm sorry... Choke is also really ridiculous with a demesne and colourmaelstrom, as well as any other afflicting skills that weren't developed specifically with choke in mind.
Daganev2008-01-07 17:13:48
So its not possible to have choke delay demense affects and ents as well?
Myndaen2008-01-07 17:21:38
QUOTE(daganev @ Jan 7 2008, 12:13 PM) 474126
So its not possible to have choke delay demense affects and ents as well?


And colourmaelstrom and . I don't think that's feasible, I think they'd have to recode every skill we had in mind, and remember to add it to any skill they code in the future. Doesn't sound reasonable IMO.
Daganev2008-01-07 17:25:30
QUOTE(Myndaen @ Jan 7 2008, 09:21 AM) 474127
And colourmaelstrom and . I don't think that's feasible, I think they'd have to recode every skill we had in mind, and remember to add it to any skill they code in the future. Doesn't sound reasonable IMO.


Umm, no.

"any afflicting skill thats not related to someone with choke" does not need to be worried about.

However, Fae, and hexes, and demenses are reasonable things to worry about when talking about a shadowdancer.

(i.e. we have lots of precedence with Wisp, however TRAMPLE and Crucifix haven't ever been worried about together)


It sounds like nobody ever really addressed the real issue with Choke, and decided to just throw stuff at it, to convince it to be removed/nerfed to oblivion.

edit: BTW, I would LOVE to be able to use Choke as a Bonecrusher, so I'm all biased for change.
Myndaen2008-01-07 17:30:11
QUOTE(daganev @ Jan 7 2008, 12:25 PM) 474128
Umm, no.

"any afflicting skill thats not related to someone with choke" does not need to be worried about.

However, Fae, and hexes, and demenses are reasonable things to worry about when talking about a shadowdancer.


Umm...

This is a skill that entirely throws balance out the window when used in conjunction with other skills (IE: Colourmaelstrom, demesnes). This is my concern with choke and this is what a lot of revamp suggestions do not address.
Hyrtakos2008-01-07 17:31:48
How is it overpowered or unbalanced when you can put your own demesne and maelstrom inside of it? I'm sure I could dig up a log of being in a choked roomed within a seren demesne and colormaelstrom.

Warriors choke is fine as well. It's perfectly feasible and fun to fight in.
Myndaen2008-01-07 17:37:26
QUOTE(hyrtakos @ Jan 7 2008, 12:31 PM) 474130
How is it overpowered or unbalanced when you can put your own demesne and maelstrom inside of it? I'm sure I could dig up a log of being in a choked roomed within a seren demesne and colormaelstrom.


Just because it's reciprocal doesn't mean it's not overpowered. I don't think -anyone- should be able to do this. I don't think it's enjoyable, and it certainly doesn't test skill.