Lusternia

Ninjakari Offense

by Forren

Forren2008-01-21 15:54:45Show/Hide

CODE

Malicia2008-01-21 16:20:59Show/Hide

You flee!

Fix monks, please. And how much power is rushing? 3p?

Just wait until ruptures are added to Tahtetso and Shofangi. It's going to be a whole new level of ridiculous.

Shamarah2008-01-21 16:33:34Show/Hide

kekekekekek

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't even bother writhing against me.

Catarin2008-01-21 16:37:22Show/Hide

How to deal with it? You run. Like you did. Right now it is mechanically impossible to survive a competent ninjakari offense unless you have one of the few abilities that can actually slow a monk down.

Why? Well, you just have to do the numbers. You can apply a health every 4.3 seconds or so on average. You can read a scroll every 8 seconds. A faeling ninjakari can give you 1 rupture every 1.3 seconds. A normal balance ninjakari can give you 1 rupture every 1.6 seconds or so.

That means that a faeling ninjakari can get you to 5 ruptures on one body part and keep you there in about 14.5 seconds. For a normal balance it takes closer to 20 seconds. This generally means that after a certain point it's going to be mangled limbs, twisted limbs, and concussions at will. But, in reality it is the instant kill that you need to worry about which can be done as soon as you have 13 ruptures stuck on you. For a faeling ninjakari it takes 34 seconds to get to that point. For a regular one, 45.

Shielding will not help. Webbing them will not even slow them down. Breaking limbs, no. Aeon, no. Stunning? Needs to be a very good stun for it to significantly slow them down. And that's the thing, even if you DO slow them down, if you find a way to, it is just delaying the inevitable. They will quickly start being able to twist and mangle your limbs. You will be getting stunned very often as well with Akagh if they wish it.

It's pretty simple math really. There is no mechanical way to keep up with ruptures. You WILL get them stacked on you and if you stick along long enough and they're a halfway decent fighter, they WILL kill you with that instakill.

So how do you deal with it? Any time ruptures start stacking on you, run for about 30 seconds to get them cured back down and then re-engage. Assuming you can run of course. But unless you have some reliable way to keep them slowed down, don't bother.

Shamarah2008-01-21 16:47:43Show/Hide

Get your numbers right. I attack at 1.8 seconds.

Still, yes, ruptures are a bit much at the moment.

Callia2008-01-21 16:51:03Show/Hide

This actually isn't a problem with Ninjakari completely (Ninshi needs to be changed, and few other skills as well) but it is a problem with Acrobatics. However, it is such a simple skill I can not quite think of a way reduce it without crippling it beyond relief.

As far as rushing, I need to defend it, but it is at current (as a psymet) the only way for me to get ahead of a knights offense, and it is still not a sure thing. I would not argue a higher power cost though.

But perhaps dodging is a little less often (not a huge amount less), tripleflash is replaced with a useful, but not horribly overpowered skill. No idea what that might be though, busy thinking on how to fix Psymet so I have fuel to horribly torment envoys with until they take psymet seriously... :-p

Shamarah2008-01-21 17:21:40Show/Hide

Uh, I wasn't using rushing. I put it up after that kata finished but Forren left before I could actually use it.

Ildaudid2008-01-21 17:26:21Show/Hide

QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jan 21 2008, 12:21 PM) 479113

Uh, I wasn't using rushing. I put it up after that kata finished but Forren left before I could actually use it.

You still put it up though Sham, which makes it OP.

Kharvik2008-01-21 17:31:39Show/Hide

Lamesauce. Nerf Lich

Malicia2008-01-21 19:47:45Show/Hide

QUOTE(Kharvik @ Jan 21 2008, 11:31 AM) 479124

Lamesauce. Nerf Lich

Yep!

Malarious2008-01-21 19:58:15Show/Hide

Monks need to be looked at AGAIN.. the summit wasnt meant to buff them.. Admin need to try combat a bit :/

As for reflection.. as a muguwmp and possibly as a normal human (if you still get 2 refs) you can stall a monk.

Ceren2008-01-21 20:03:39Show/Hide

I used to be able to raze reflections, and when I hit them it would just make my attack miss. Somewhere along the line they received a big upgrade and apparently now steal equilibrium like timeslip and avoid.

Malarious2008-01-21 20:13:23Show/Hide

QUOTE(ceren @ Jan 21 2008, 03:03 PM) 479161

I imagine you lose eq so you cant just swing 4 times to destroy all reflects and attack anyway (which would be kinda dumb).

Geb2008-01-22 00:15:27Show/Hide

Catarinâ€™s times are a bit off, but her point does stand (1.8 is the faeling top speed now for the most part). Though, she did forget a few details.

1. It is not possible to dodge or parry Ninshi and the release attack.

2. If you do not writhe out of Ninshi, you will receive another rupture when the Ninja removes it.

3. It is mechanically impossible to writhe out of Ninshi after the second combo no matter your size.

4. While the coil is still around the body part, it is not possible to apply any health or salve to it. What this means is that your healing of that body part is delayed the same amount of time as their recovery time on Ninshi or your speed of writhing out (refer back to 3 concerning writhing). You can read a scroll to remove the rupture, but you will not be able to read that scroll again for 8-seconds.

Anyhow, hopefully some of the problems will be fixed eventually. Though, I am disappointed in the state of affairs, because most of the problems should not have seen the light of day in the first place.

Revan2008-01-22 01:00:55Show/Hide

Overcoming ninjakari offense isn't too bad. ninjakari can't hinder worth a crap... and you can just leave the room whenever you want really. It's the exact same as saying "omg how do I overcome a demigod warrior offense" or "omg how do i overcome pinle whoring offense". They're all on equal terms, the only difference is that the warrior has many many more hindering options.

Callia2008-01-22 01:02:36Show/Hide

Well Ninjakari can hinder if we use hold and lock from Kata :-p

Forren2008-01-22 01:36:58Show/Hide

QUOTE(Revan @ Jan 21 2008, 08:00 PM) 479238

Rofl. Way to ignore reality.

I agree with Geb said - I'm ticked as a player that these problems even exist in the first place.

Munsia2008-01-22 01:39:06Show/Hide

Just do what I do to Visaeris.... drain and run. Ninjakari can't keep up with that technique

Revan2008-01-22 01:50:51Show/Hide

not ignoring reality Forren.... just making viable and equal comparisons

Shiri2008-01-22 02:05:32Show/Hide

It's not really that equal. You'll notice pinleg whoring just got nerfed a little. Speed issues of rushing, hyperactive and overpowered balance/eq bonus races (this again) aside, the main problem is that using ruptures doesn't limit itself like it should. At this point we're probably unlikely to get another summit for it, plus this solution got thrown out last time, so we probably need to take it through the envoys. The instakill also needs replaced.