It is such a toss up:

The best is either Paladin with Sacraments

or Serenguard with Stag

Both offer incredible defensive capabilities. from facepaints to numen

It is just too hard to say. I voted for Paladin though. But I would say Stag would be better bashing.

Whoever thought Necromancy was a better defensive skillset than Sacraments, re read the skills. Even Celestians will tell you Sacraments were built as a defensive skillset whil Necromancy was built more as an offensive.

And lich can't be called a good defense... when you lich it is because you are dead. Which isn't a real good defense if we are defining defense as in staying alive. Now it is a great way to avoid praying, but not a great defense.

i lol'd with people voting bards as defensive somone care to explain?

Yeah, I forgot about stag, that was silly of me.

I don't see why Night is better than Moon in terms of defense.

Nightkiss and Drawdown provide the same DMP.

Moon gets Full and Waxing, however, whereas Night only gets Drink. They should, at the very least, be equal.

And Shine!

I'll take a set-it-and-forget-it form of defense rather than something I have to constantly do as needed, if it's all the same.

Though, Full is quite awesome, Waxing also has its uses, probably more for MD than warriors, but lolShine.

Hypnoticpattern, while no longer completely immobilizing, is still a powerful hindering ability. Maze can keep someone out of a fight for long periods of time. Despite no longer giving afterimage, fascinate is still a very strong hindering ability. Illusoryself is arguably better than numen for soaking up damage. Nature and statue allow you to move in and out of phase for no power. Blanknote stuns longer than it takes to recover equilibrium from. Deadlypattern does fairly ridiculous amounts of stun when the target is not blind.

Then, of course, there's the ever lame acrobatics. Random, passive, complete dodging of attacks makes a mockery of the notion of combat balance. Avoid, especially alongside reflections, opens up all sorts of cheap defensive possibilities. Contort grants near immunity to entangling. Backflip and especially somersault allow easy escape from rooms. And finally, tripleflash gives you 30 seconds of godmode for 10 power.

Last time I checked, numb + numen did not stack. Ie, at the end you take 60% of the sum rather than 30% you would, if numen's 50% decrease worked.

Well, drink is nothing for you then, either.

tobad most of those skills are for offense not defense. Almost all acrobatic skills for defence as a bard are useless. If you can triple flash your not even trying to fight the enemy as bards are probably the most power wasting class in the game. Contort and spring and what ever the super tumble is are the only good defensive skills for bards.

Sorry I don't get what you're trying to say here. First it seems you say that most of the skills ceren mentioned don't count in this discussion because they're for offense, and then you say triple flash is not a good defensive skill because it hurts your offense. I think acrobatic bard is a pretty strong defensive choice. Maybe not as good as some of the other choices but I don't think it's as lolworthy as you think it is to see that people voted for it.

I'm not sure why warriors are being given such high defense ratings.

Firstly, they have nothing for mana kills. (How many people kill with damage anyways?)

Secondly, they can't really stop an offense. (unless running away counts)

I think its because the idea of warrior blurs all the specs together into 1 super spec that would have good defence but it isnt real thus causes misconceptions.

That argument would work if the specs had defences.

You do know the difference between offense and defense, right? I noticed you claiming the inqui line as a defensive skill.

without surge up I had plenty of mana to avoid mana kills and I was a tracker which had no DMP's so as long as you know when to use surge you are well enough off

15% passive dodging, active dodge, tripleflash. Truly useless!

That doesn't answer any of my questions

Warriors don't have much magic protection (less proofing than robes get)

Basically, you are saying that Numen is more of an advantage to defense then the ability to vine/web,choke/aeon, and the healing skillset combined.

Inquisition line could be seen as defensive. If you want someone to run, just get them to Infidel. I suppose Sojiro was right with his whole, "Offense = Defense." thing.

the 15% is nice but 1 dodge out of 7 at max isnt that great. if you need to active dodge your already screwed and Tripleflash is useless for a bard. as if you have spent 10power on dodging attacks you already have no offense and can do what attack with colourburst?