By the way, I know that medicinebag and totem rock, but I'm not convinced that they're better than nightkiss + drink.

Totem is blanketly better than drink. You can make a case for nightkiss/drawdown vs. medicinebag, but it'll probably look a lot like the lich vs. trueheal debate.

TOtem costs 5p and isn't mobile. Drink costs either 1p or 0p depending on how you look at it, and is permanent due to construct.

Drink isn't particularly mobile and has no health benefits.

EDIT: And I believe totem ticks at the same speed as crowsnest, which makes totem faster than drink.

Oh yeah, somehow I was thinking drink regens health. It is more mobile though, shadows are only 1p to put down even if they're not pre-layed. But we'll call it generally worse. I still think DD/NK is likely to be better than medicinebag though.

It's tough to compare. A higher sip and apply is a major racial benefit, and a big part of the reason spec faeling Shadowdancers and Blacktalon aren't completely gimped as bashers. The benefit compounds with higher health, which a Stag Serenguard is likely to have. DMP is always nice, though.

Hm! Crow must be listed here somewhere. And tracking, too!

Stagtotem cures afflictions and health/mana/ego on a relatively fast tick, and also pushes that above max. (Not sure how much right now), together with Medbag, it's pretty awesome. It's why I was Serenguard with Stag instead of with Moon, and it paid off. (Swiftstripes and the rest were just additional benefits!)

Yeah, by no means am I trying to dismiss the worth of medicinebag and totem, but as Xavius says, DMP is always nice. 5p could be inconvenient to level, too (though that doesn't hurt it much - just makes it a little less flexible than drink, but drink is still worse.)

A couple pages late, but:

ATHLETICS - RESISTANCE

Syntax: RESISTANCE
Damage Modifier: 10
Calling upon your inner physical reserves, you can exude an aura that
will absorb some magical damage.


ATHLETICS - FITNESS

Damage Modifier: 15

Your athletic fitness is such that you are better able to sweat out a
fight at extremely hot temperatures, and will therefore take less damage
from heat-based attacks. There is no command to activate it; you will
always be protected from the heat so long as you possess this skill.


You have better resistance than proofed robes for fire resist and equal for magic resist. With cold and fire proofed clothes, you win out on fire and only lack for electric resist.

Warriors can only wear one cloak, which normally goes to cold OR fire, not both. Though I was under the impression that wiccans have better natural defences to various magics more than just the robes as well.

@celina: don't flatter yourself. I am pretty sure I didn't say anything about one of your "typical" posts here.


@daganev: Umm what about fully proofed plate? I remember before going monk, my plate was elec/magic/fire/cold proofed every other day or so. (Which was being fixed yeah, but still for a while it was like that) so stacking that with DMP's

Also as a warrior I would wear a coat, and a cloak, one proofed for fire the other would depend. I would also keep a spare to switch if needed.


Now, wasn't this topic based on DEFENSE? aka staying alive (stayin alive, ah ah ah ah stayin aliiiiiiveeee)

Krin fails, tripleflash is a good DEFENSIVE skill, just like trueheal is a good defensive skill. How the hell did lunge, and attacks come into a defense thread?


I am still sticking with a Paladin Sacraments simply because of Numen, with TH as an added bonus just in case, but Numen is a nice defensive skill combined with athletics skills.

Sorry, I don't consider abusing bugs part of the discussion.

I've never been able to wear both at the same time, though maybe they changed that at some point.

Hehe, touche. Well good thing was I talked to Roark about it, and since there was nothing that could be done until he fixed it (unless you stopped wearing your plate) it was ok. But yeah I guess it doesn't count. But every day or so I would check my plate (one day it would be fully proofed, another no proofs. But he fixed it)


I know I could wear a coat, I would always curse the coat so I couldn't have my plate removed (since it was under the coat). The I could wear something, it was a cloak or something else over that. I am pretty sure it was a cloak, but I could be wrong. I do know that you could wear 2 things though and get 2 proofs. (Too bad you can't double proof though... woulda been nice 2 fires for fighting gorgogs.)

I agree completely. Tripleflash is crazy. I'd vote bards as strongest defensively, with stag serenguard and ur'guard second. I loved stag. The passive totem is incredibly nice, along with the face paints and medicinebag, as others mentioned. Putre is nice. Ha, Paladins as most defensive? Most people won't burn 4p over and over during a fight and expect to get anywhere. Bashing, yes. May as well burn 10p over and over for trueheal, imo. Equally silly.

@Ilyarin- You're right. Numen and numb don't stack.

Ur'Guard? Defensive? Not hardly. The only defensive skill is putre. Which has a nice mana drain. Numen tops it defensive wise. The only other thing is Ghost, which is an escape skill you can't ghost and fight out of phase. I guess I can see ghost putting Ur'guard up there, problem is when you unghost the equil/bal time is as long as lich if not longer. I remember unghosting in a room with Munsia. I thought I had no balance loss and could handle it.... I thought wrong, Munsia raped me! While I sat there waiting for balance. When I got it, 3 more people were in the room and munsia had me about dead... and well... I died.

Take a warrior:
Athletic defensive skills including vitality and numb.

Add Sacraments skills, like that wierd one that infects the room and passively heals you or 3 other sacraments users. Add numen to that. You have one tanky warrior.

But I am still going with serenguard stag for 2nd best.

Offensively I would say Ur'Guard is pretty high up there, but defensive... I dunno. Ghost used to rate high and would put them up. But after the ghost nerfs. I am not as sure about it.

Feel free to disagree. Paladins won't burn 4p over and over during pvp for numen. Hallowedground lasts 102 seconds and costs 3p. (totem is -far- better).

Athletics abilities are kinda irrelevant. It's not as if it's unique to one org. There are some that would argue that putre is pretty good. The mana drain is a drawback in relation to what it provides, but manageable. Take Celestines, who are unbelievably frail. Paladins have no escape abilities and special resistances. How can you put them above Moon/Night or Stag warriors? I'd say communes have it really good.

Edit: And if we're truly going to debate the defensive benefits of Athletics, we might as well throw in fullplate. A warrior in fullplate is tanky, period. I don't think sacraments makes Paladins the top defensive class. It's really hard to believe you're being objective, if we're taking things like drawdown and nightkiss into account.

I wouldn't even put drawdown or nightkiss in the picture when compared to stag actually.

I guess it ends up like this for me.
City best defense. Paladin/Sacraments
Commune Seremguard/Stag

Now I agree if you use stag or sacraments without being a warrior your defensive capabilities are shot. I am just having a hard time between Sac and Stag. Both are great but differently great.

If I was Serenguard I would be stag to bash. Although the free 600cr+ skill drawdown might lean me the other way. Damn its a hard call with Serenguards. Getting stripes or getting drawdown. ughhhhhh I dunno

But... but... you left one out!

No one wants to be Crow Xenthos, only Druids get stuck with that choice... You should have chose Night!