Why would nobody want to be Crow?

Crow is good too. Bonenose facepaint is hot. I'm sticking with bards and commune warriors for having great defensive capability, still followed by ur'guard. Wiccans aren't bad off either.

Yeah, I like bonenose and spiderweb. They are, however, rather limited and don't hold a candle to more all-around defenses. And they're really the most defensive thing Crow has.

You have the poison cloak don't ya? Not like it is helpful.

I am still stickin to Paladins/Sacraments and Stag Warriors. They have best all around defense, And like Malicia said if you add in the full plate or even regular plate... damn!

dont they have benediction which is like 1 power for 7 defences?

.Even drink beats bonenose.

I think I'd take Acro-Harmony monks over Sacraments Paladins for tankiness, honestly. Anyone who things Necromancy beats Sacraments for tankiness needs to be taken out back and beaten with the smart stick until they realize the sky is blue, though.

You should take your own advice. Sacraments is a defensive-support skillset, but how much dmp do you think it gives Celestines/Paladins? I'm not going to repeat myself about numen. If this is about trueheal, then I won't bother.

offtrack:
Damn GoGo music puts me in a good mood for some reason. I Rare Essence. Although most people won't know what GoGo is... /offtrack

How many defensive skills do you think Necromancy has, woman?

You should learn to read. I never said necromancy was a defensive skillset. I hailed putre as a good ability. It can stay up, with a health drain. Numen lasts anywhere from 20-35 seconds and costs 4p each time. It is a good ability, but during pvp, no. But I'm not downplaying it at all. I adore numen and it's the best ability sacraments has. I put bards and commune warriors on top. I don't see how anyone could put Paladins over Moon/Night warriors, as far as defense.

(Edited.)

You honestly think Sacraments offers less defense than Necromancy, or you feel like going back to edit that post?

As I explained, Celestines are quite untanky. Sacraments alone doesn't provide enough dmp to keep them alive. They rely on a good offense. Whoring out numen/trueheal is silly, for pvp. Or are we talking about bashing? I would say Nihilists are tankier than Celestines. Talk to Ceren, if you don't agree with me.

Don't twist my words, Xavius. You're usually a bright fellow. I put ur'guard after bards/commune warriors, due to their tankiness with putre. Again, I never said necromancy was defensive as a whole. Or do you need me to draw pictures for you, so that you'll get the point?

My list goes something like: Serenguard/Moon, Serenguard/Stag, Ur'guard/Necro, Ebonguard/Night, Ebonguard/Crow, Paladin/Sacraments.

The first four shuffle around, depending on what aspect feels most important at a given moment. I might put Moondancer/Healing in the middle there somewhere. Completely ignoring race means bards are close to the beginning of the list, but I can't help but feel that bards favor frail races and therefore on average wind up less survivable.

This isn't a bias thing, I don't think. I've gone and created Serenguard, Ebonguard and bard alts, whereas Moondancers (the gigglefit portion of their population, not the class) rub me the wrong way. Magnagoran RP keeps me from considering an Ur'guard and Paladins just don't impress me skills-wise. If I want offensive potency as a warrior, it's Ebonguard/Night. If I want defense, it's Serenguard/Moon.

Passives and the ability to shrug off deaths rank high in my book.

edit: The sky is green, darnit!

It's actually a health drain, based off your max health. Still, an amazing defense.

Er, yes, Celestines currently have a total physical dmp of 8 and are quite fragile without numen. However, if we're considering things like tripleflash for bards, we also have to consider numen for Celestines and Paladins.

EDIT: Forgot about symbol, but I'm not sure how much dmp that adds.

Right, I knew that. But yeah, I've talked to many Mag-players who say the same about putre. Thanks for correcting me!

I suppose. The thing is, numen doesn't decrease deepwounds/block afflictions, so I'd say it's hardly on par with t-flash, which allows you to keep attacking while not getting hit at all. But I do see your point. Sacraments is just so obscenely power-intensive. I rarely use numen during pvp.

I dunno. 20% DR to everything from Moon/Night vs 50% DR for 30 seconds @ 4p.

People will have different opinions, I suppose, but I'd rather have 20% all the time.

Symbol is 5% resistance to cold, poison, cutting, blunt and...fire? I forget the 5th. ONE of these is boosted up to 10% based off which symbol you wield. Gorgulu is posion, Baal is cold, Nif is cutting, etc.

I'd have to agree about tripleflash/illusoryself/reflection/avoid/passive avoidance being the among the best defensive abilities especially when they are all put together. DMP might suck, but who needs it when you don't take any damage? A bard that doesn't want to die is frustrating.

I'd put Sacraments Paladins over Crow warriors for defense, period. Please don't underestimate Numen. You're right, using it ALL the time isn't going to be great-- but if you're getting targeted and expect your offense to suffer for a while because they're all beating on you, you can 1) Trueheal (burn all your power, and only win a brief reprieve) or 2) Numen and tank for a bit, using a bit less on offense in order to survive longer.

(And I was sitting doing some lab-work while this post was sitting here, so you did say that Numen is a great skill after I had started penning it-- but mix the option for Numen, Hallowed ground, etc. and you've got some pretty decent defense options even if they're not things you use again the moment they fall).