Death

by Morgfyre

Back to Common Grounds.

Daganev2008-02-13 23:03:06
QUOTE(Forren @ Feb 13 2008, 01:35 PM) 486332
You think it would be good for the game to have an incredible number of level 99/100s running around as well?



Thats a strange question.

Its like asking if you think it would be a good idea of an incredible number of people were omnitrans...
Malicia2008-02-13 23:10:00
QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 13 2008, 05:03 PM) 486369
Thats a strange question.

Its like asking if you think it would be a good idea of an incredible number of people were omnitrans...

Maybe we could include an option to buy titan/demigod status. tongue.gif

You have to grind to get there. A considerable difference.
Daganev2008-02-13 23:14:29
QUOTE(Malicia @ Feb 13 2008, 03:10 PM) 486370
Maybe we could include an option to buy titan/demigod status. tongue.gif

You have to grind to get there. A considerable difference.


I just don't understand how you can say that lots of people having gotten that top reward is a bad thing.

Doesn't matter how they get it. Why does it matter if someone bought 5100 credits for spent 300 hours bashing?

Besides, the truly rare positions we have in Lusternia are Ascedants, Avatars, and political leaders. Everything else can be common, and the game would be better for it.
Unknown2008-02-13 23:19:36
I'd go for the stat reduction + slower exp gain for x time, I've a feeling a lot of other players wouldn't mind this either.

Repeated arguments about "Nooooo, my skillz!" are probably going to be ignored since Morgfyre already said he's willing to drop that loss of skills thing.

Malicia2008-02-13 23:27:07
QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 13 2008, 05:14 PM) 486371
I just don't understand how you can say that lots of people having gotten that top reward is a bad thing.

Doesn't matter how they get it. Why does it matter if someone bought 5100 credits for spent 300 hours bashing?

Besides, the truly rare positions we have in Lusternia are Ascedants, Avatars, and political leaders. Everything else can be common, and the game would be better for it.

That's an interesting question. What's more beneficial to Lusternia? 300 hours spent in game, participating in various aspects of it, or buying a bunch of credits and hardly actually playing? Who is contributing more?
Daganev2008-02-13 23:27:21
speed penalties would also be a good death affliction.

diagnose

You have been afflicted with:
depression (-1 balance/eq)
a weakened thread (-3 stats)
the experience of death (-50% xp gain)
Forren2008-02-13 23:32:13
300 hours? It took me around 100 rl days (2400 hours) to get Demigod.

I'm still perplexed. Daganev, tell me, what's the advantage of giving those penalty instead of experience loss when someone dies?
Daganev2008-02-13 23:41:45
QUOTE(Forren @ Feb 13 2008, 03:32 PM) 486381
300 hours? It took me around 100 rl days (2400 hours) to get Demigod.


My appologies, 2400 hours. Lets say the negation of xp loss now makes that 1800 hours. (Though I doubt hte impact is that high) How does having lots of people who spent 1800 hours bashing and playing the game to earn the top bashing reward hurt Lusternia?

QUOTE
I'm still perplexed. Daganev, tell me, what's the advantage of giving those penalty instead of experience loss when someone dies?
It does two main things.

1. When people team up to purposefully gank and kill you, you don't lose hard work and time. You only lose potential gain. That is, you can't really be griefed or have a feeling of "Man I just wasted 2 hours of my time, and I have nothing to show for it now."

2. It creates a direct and immediate impact on group combat from death, so that it matters for more than 3 minutes.

QUOTE(Malicia @ Feb 13 2008, 03:27 PM) 486379

That's an interesting question. What's more beneficial to Lusternia? 300 hours spent in game, participating in various aspects of it, or buying a bunch of credits and hardly actually playing? Who is contributing more?


They are balanced benefits to Lusternia. They arn't the same, they both have different pros and cons. thus that makes them balanced!
Malicia2008-02-13 23:47:14
QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 13 2008, 05:41 PM) 486382
My appologies, 2400 hours. Lets say the negation of xp loss now makes that 1800 hours. (Though I doubt hte impact is that high) How does having lots of people who spent 1800 hours bashing and playing the game to earn the top bashing reward hurt Lusternia?

It does two main things.

1. When people team up to purposefully gank and kill you, you don't lose hard work and time. You only lose potential gain. That is, you can't really be griefed or have a feeling of "Man I just wasted 2 hours of my time, and I have nothing to show for it now."

2. It creates a direct and immediate impact on group combat from death, so that it matters for more than 3 minutes.
They are balanced benefits to Lusternia. They arn't the same, they both have different pros and cons. thus that makes them balanced!

I guess. I'd lean more towards those who actively play Lusternia. Not those who splurge on credits, but don't play. Gorokan comes to mind. He's someone I tried to bring over from Achaea, but he finds Lusternia way too confusing and quit.
Forren2008-02-13 23:47:36
QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 13 2008, 06:41 PM) 486382
1. When people team up to purposefully gank and kill you, you don't lose hard work and time. You only lose potential gain. That is, you can't really be griefed or have a feeling of "Man I just wasted 2 hours of my time, and I have nothing to show for it now."

Instead, you have an hour of "oh :censor:, I can't bash the stuff I've usually been bashing because I'll just go splat." See: psionic burnout and forcefield.

QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 13 2008, 06:41 PM) 486382
2. It creates a direct and immediate impact on group combat from death, so that it matters for more than 3 minutes.
They are balanced benefits to Lusternia. They arn't the same, they both have different pros and cons. thus that makes them balanced!

You have a very odd idea of balance.

This suggestion actually hurts defenders. A lot. If you whined at all about dying to defend, you're going to hate it even more.
Myndaen2008-02-13 23:47:39
QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 13 2008, 06:41 PM) 486382
It does two main things.

1. When people team up to purposefully gank and kill you, you don't lose hard work and time. You only lose potential gain. That is, you can't really be griefed or have a feeling of "Man I just wasted 2 hours of my time, and I have nothing to show for it now."


While I don't at all agree with Forren, I also don't agree with you.

You may not lose hard work and time spent in the past, by having those speed and stat bonuses, but you lose out on hard work and time spent in the future (IE, while those affects are active if you can't bash, etc.) In the end, the future becomes the past, so I think there's really no way to quantify whether stopping you from bashing once you die for X hours is equivalent to losing X experience when you die.

To repeat, I once again think that experience loss should be based on avenger. The admin have insisted (and I mean INSISTED) that off-prime areas are "open PK". We all know better. Now's their chance to make it so. One of my biggest hesitations at outright going to raid, or PK, in an environment where they make it VERY VERY HARD (hello overpowered discretionary powers) is that once I go in, very much more often than not, the only way I'm likely to get back out is death. (Ignore cubixes for the moment, we're talking majority of the players.)
Forren2008-02-13 23:48:55
QUOTE(Myndaen @ Feb 13 2008, 06:47 PM) 486385
(hello overpowered discretionary powers)

yhalothar
Arel2008-02-13 23:48:58
QUOTE(Forren @ Feb 13 2008, 04:52 PM) 486355
I'd make the argument that the percentages have shifted because of more casual players voting in the poll.

I'd be interesting to see the breakdown in opinions by time played on Lusternia, level, and might.

You have played for a total of 78 days, 3 hours and 5 minutes.
Level : 78 (25.78%)
And Forren is 160% of my might.

My opinion is that some stat loss and 50% slowed experience gain scaling back up to full capacity as time passes is actually a good thing.


QUOTE(Malicia @ Feb 13 2008, 06:27 PM) 486379
That's an interesting question. What's more beneficial to Lusternia? 300 hours spent in game, participating in various aspects of it, or buying a bunch of credits and hardly actually playing? Who is contributing more?

Well, buying enough credits to omnitrans benefits Lusternia in that it pays for upkeep, salaries, and the server. Playing for 300 hours enriches the game for players and builds an interesting environment and community. Both of these are important. That being said, I doubt anyone is going to spend $300 and then hardly actually play, so the question is sort or unrealistic.
Malicia2008-02-13 23:52:21
QUOTE(Arel @ Feb 13 2008, 05:48 PM) 486387
You have played for a total of 78 days, 3 hours and 5 minutes.
Level : 78 (25.78%)
And Forren is 160% of my might.

My opinion is that some stat loss and 50% slowed experience gain scaling back up to full capacity as time passes is actually a good thing.
Well, buying enough credits to omnitrans benefits Lusternia in that it pays for upkeep, salaries, and the server. Playing for 300 hours enriches the game for players and builds an interesting environment and community. Both of these are important. That being said, I doubt anyone is going to spend $300 and then hardly actually play, so the question is sort or unrealistic.

Not at all unrealistic. I know of players with maxed out chars in all four IRE games, but they only play one regularly.
Arel2008-02-13 23:55:19
QUOTE(Malicia @ Feb 13 2008, 06:52 PM) 486388
Not at all unrealistic. I know of players with maxed out chars in all four IRE games, but they only play one regularly.

Yeah, I thought of that too, but I assume that they played the game long enough to contribute a great deal to the environment if they spent so much on the game.
Daganev2008-02-13 23:58:29
QUOTE(Myndaen @ Feb 13 2008, 03:47 PM) 486385
While I don't at all agree with Forren, I also don't agree with you.

You may not lose hard work and time spent in the past, by having those speed and stat bonuses, but you lose out on hard work and time spent in the future (IE, while those affects are active if you can't bash, etc.) In the end, the future becomes the past, so I think there's really no way to quantify whether stopping you from bashing once you die for X hours is equivalent to losing X experience when you die.


Thats a maximum of one hour. A penalty that I'm pretty sure anyone can live with as being the "cost of death." (And for most people it will actually more likely be 30 minutes and not even a full hour)

However, when it comes to XP loss, the loss can range from 20 minutes (dieing in the low levels) to 20 hours (forgetting to pray for 2 hours) Attempting to equalize hte xp loss so that it always equates 1 hour of bashing would A. be a nightmare, and B. be a lot less interesting in other areas.

The lack of losing XP would also make bashing feel a bit more IC, since you reasons for doing it, and times when you do it wouldn't be so related to raiding. (I just attacked the city guards, now I shall go do quests on spectre isle to compensate for my loss.)
Daganev2008-02-13 23:59:44
QUOTE(Malicia @ Feb 13 2008, 03:52 PM) 486388
Not at all unrealistic. I know of players with maxed out chars in all four IRE games, but they only play one regularly.


You probabbly know of more charachters who bashed to level 100 and then stopped playing regularly.
Xavius2008-02-14 00:04:37
I wouldn't say that all time spent in Lusternia is of equal benefit to the game.

AFK
Xenthos2008-02-14 01:55:07
QUOTE(Forren @ Feb 13 2008, 06:32 PM) 486381
300 hours? It took me around 100 rl days (2400 hours) to get Demigod.

Are you honestly saying you spent those 100 RL days played time doing nothing but bashing? 'Cause I know you didn't.

Sure, it's probably a bit more than 300 hours of actual bashing time to get it, but nowhere near 2400 hours of actual bashing time.
Forren2008-02-14 02:14:03
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Feb 13 2008, 08:55 PM) 486404
Are you honestly saying you spent those 100 RL days played time doing nothing but bashing? 'Cause I know you didn't.

Sure, it's probably a bit more than 300 hours of actual bashing time to get it, but nowhere near 2400 hours of actual bashing time.

If you knew me going from 1-100, it was steady climb. I pretty much did nothing but bash. Sitting around doing nothing and talking on Bellators is quite the recent phenomenon for me. It's probably 80 rl days or so if you take out wasted time.