I'm pretty sure you were around on Bellator's a while before you got to 100, and had already been working on a fair bit of your own combat stuff (though you didn't go through and make your own complete system 'til after). I could swear I remember you saying, on Bellator's, that you had reached Demigod and showing off your played time. Hrm. Perhaps not.

I talk while bashing - I'm extremely good at multitasking and pressing the arrow keys in time to ff. I never just sat around and talked though. I didn't make my own system til May of 2007, well after getting Demigod. My own combat stuff took less than an hour to make.

My!!! Your epeen is bigger than I thought!

I can't personally say how long it took Forren to get to 100, but 300 hours is waaay too low. That's saying you could get demigod in 12.5 days of playing Lusternia. That just seems impossible to me. Even with bashing being all you did, from the time you woke up to the time you went to sleep, it couldn't be that low. I'm more inclined to believe Forren on the hours it took, as he is the demigod here and most likely speaking from experience.

No, my own combat stuff consisted of a few aliases for telekinesis combos and an illusion set I modified from Acrune. That's it.

So your epeen is tiny?

:xinemus:

100 RL days sounds about right, I'm currently at 134 days, but a lot of that time was spent doing other things like fighting and uh....deeply meditating while forging. Also, as many people who know me can attest, I'm a lazy basher.

Yeah... and sitting around at the Moonhart. I'm guessing a lot more than 34 days worth, from my spying.

Note: I didn't say it took Forren 300 hours of straight bashing, just that it didn't take 2400. Which he has agreed on.

I probably worded my last post wrong then. I'm saying that it is impossible for -anyone- to get demigod in around 300 hours, which seems to be your estimate. That's less than two weeks. Once Nejii even got titan, he didn't estimate demigod until about a month after. So, talking to a couple demigods, I asked them how long it took them to get from titan to demi, because they either didn't keep track until titan, or didn't have the hours logged before then.

Forren (1-100): Mine is between 1900-2400

Zia (titan-demi): Zia tells you, "I got titan on 12/10 and demi on 1/15."

Nejii (titan-demi): Nejii tells you, "From titan it was probably like...120."

Aia (titan-demi): Aia tells you, " Unless you mean from Titan to Demi, and that took me 'bout a month and a half or so IRL time."

So I was slightly off with Nejii's time, but he did also say it took him about 3 weeks. The 120 hours would just be time spent getting to demi. But with it taking that long to get from titan to demi, it's impossible to get demigod in a bit over 300 hours, so as I was saying, I'm more inclined to believe Forren's estimated time of demigodness.

Please read it again. 300 was Daganev's estimate. I said it was probably more than 300, but not 2400. Forren agreed. That seems pretty cut-and-dry to me.

Anyone know what level Visaeris was when he started his mindnumbing bashing stretch?

Not sure if we can count that as accurate, since it was pre-nerf monks, which were off the spectrum in bashing compared to every other class.

Yeah, 300 hours is really way too optimistic of an estimate. Titan alone takes 50 (extremely fast) to 100 (average) hours worth of time and there's 98 more levels where that came from.

ok...

so people are stating that we don't need to defend.
Then plz remove ALL negative effects that can happen to an org if they decide not to defend (no loosing dream sands, fae, pacts, etc) As raids effecting the appropriate entities mean losing things and avatar/cosmic entity raids mean the org needs to collect essence to recover because their members didn't want to suffer the experience loss.

Again we don't need to defend? There are reprocussions for deciding not to defend, and it's quite likely if the entire org decides to let their enemies raid uncontested you'll probably get some negative admin intervention. (Unlikely but if those off-peak players it can happen)

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As morg stated initially, the various forms of exp loss reduction that exist would be converted to reducing the penalties.
If the penality was reduced fairly when dying in your own territory (i.e as a result of defending) then it's possible that the stat penalties wouldn't have as severe an effect on defending. (if the normal period is 10 minutes and home territory halves that, then you'd def up and be heading back to defend with a little while left till it lapses)

Also dying in enemy territory was listed as still causing experience loss, stacking with the death penalties this makes a deterrant to long raids where the raiders aren't caring about the losses they might suffer, giving defenders a break longer than the enemies conglut/defup/return.

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personally, I don't care if I lose my stats for a while because I do things on lusternia other than bashing. I'll just wait it out... that's fine by me, but to be pushed further away from level 80 is a pain in the behind. I've logged on and seen Saran fall asleep or pass out from hunger to just say screw it and quit.

I've tried hunting xion and undervault, which I can (uv requires care but it works), but the experience loss and especially when it negates the bashing I've been doing can be depressing.

I understand and don't expect to ever get to demi, If this was implemented I could see quite a few people getting to level 80 and just staying there.

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Maybe players who want to still accept experience loss could have the option to spend it to remove the penalty? it could take your experience equal to the current loss.

My gawd, it was a random number I pulled out of a hat.

I even acknowledged that it was too low in the very next post!

I then mentioned that if it used to take 2400 hours with experience loss, and it takes 1800 hours without experience loss, then 1800 hours is still a HUGE investment and accomplishment worthy.

Thats not a bad idea. Atleast during hte initial months. This way they can track what players actually do and which they find more important.

Moral of the story- when pulling a number out of a hat, always go for insanely overcompensating extremes.

Because otherwise people keep pointing at the small number, no matter how many times they're told the conversation isn't even about that number.

I think the premise behind the suggested change is in error. New or inexperienced people who come in and consider trying out combat aren't disenfranchised by the experience loss on death as much as much as they are the high investment necessary to compete. Let's face it, it takes transing or close to transing at least one guild skillsets and a couple of common skillsets; an entire assortments of vials (with the requisite potion/elixir/salve), herbs, scrolls, and armor; and a good system that's either purchased or personally coded. In the end, this is a very large initial investment that many people do not have the time or money to waste on, particularly the community that holds steady jobs, haven't done much prior coding (or even have!), and just want to sit back and relax. Death losses really pale in comparison to that issue, I think.

I totally agree. Compared to Aetolia or Imperian, our combat system is immensely complex and requires enormous investment to get a serious foothold into it.

We really should make a separate thread about how we can make combat easier to adapt to when first getting started. Certain things have definitely helped, like the posting of a complete trigger line list (/shameless plug). A lot more people are now making their own systems successfully. We definitely have more player support for such efforts than what I've seen from, say, Aetolia.