Good points made by Nydekion. I hear more discouraging comments from novices and fully established players concerning the overwhelming cost of supplies (especially weapons) than anything else. Certainly not experience loss, at their levels.

I think the premise behind the suggested change is in error. New or inexperienced people who come in and consider trying out combat aren't disenfranchised by the experience loss on death as much as much as they are the high investment necessary to compete. Let's face it, it takes transing or close to transing at least one guild skillsets and a couple of common skillsets; an entire assortments of vials (with the requisite potion/elixir/salve), herbs, scrolls, and armor; and a good system that's either purchased or personally coded. In the end, this is a very large initial investment that many people do not have the time or money to waste on, particularly the community that holds steady jobs, haven't done much prior coding (or even have!), and just want to sit back and relax. Death losses really pale in comparison to that issue, I think.

Good points made by Nydekion. I hear more discouraging comments from novices and fully established players concerning the overwhelming cost of supplies (especially weapons) than anything else. Certainly not experience loss, at their levels.

Who said the target audience was new or inexperienced people?

Rarely do new or inexperienced people get targeted for a "make them pray" attack.
The question at hand is regarding death and kills. Which means said people are allready in a battle environment. In other words

Something we've talked a bit about is death, and particularly the costs associated with death in Lusternia. Lusternia is a pretty conflict-heavy game, and I've heard a lot about how dying (and particularly xp loss) disenfranchises newer or inexperienced players from participating in their city or commune's big conflicts.

disenfranchises newer or inexperienced players from participating in their city or commune's big conflicts.

....

It seems to me that this would also mitigate some of the frustration about death avoidance skills, because nobody is losing their hard-earned experience. I believe it would also make conflict more enjoyable, particularly on the defending side of raids.

The point is the "Big conflicts", as well as hte second point I bolded. Thats what I understood from it when I read it. The conflicts that result in people saying, "ooh lets get them back and make them pray."

This change would just serve to further unmotivate people from defending.

How exactly?

We are talking about 1 hour of less effective game play, instead of hours of lost game play.

The point is the "Big conflicts", as well as hte second point I bolded. Thats what I understood from it when I read it. The conflicts that result in people saying, "ooh lets get them back and make them pray."

edit: That is, when you are part of the "big conflicts" having max weapons and max skills is less important, as long as you can play a part in the battle. (webbing, sleeping, just adding wounds etc)

But as you said yourself, no one goes out of their way to force new and inexperienced players to pray. That it's rare. So what is the real issue? I think a lot of frustration stems from the inability to compete and stay alive and not so much the dying part. Experience loss is easily regained at lower levels. I've had young Paladin players quit, because they couldn't afford a masterweapon or a system to participate in 'big conflict' and feel useful. I don't see how you can say that having max skills, a system and good equipment is less important than losing some experience.

But as you said yourself, no one goes out of their way to force new and inexperienced players to pray. That it's rare. So what is the real issue? I think a lot of frustration stems from the inability to compete and stay alive and not so much the dying part. Experience loss is easily regained at lower levels. I've had young Paladin players quit, because they couldn't afford a masterweapon or a system to participate in 'big conflict' and feel useful. I don't see how you can say that having max skills, a system and good equipment is less important than losing some experience.

If one death is hours lost for you, you're doing something gravely wrong.

And I say it's all related!

Ok, so I'm doing something gravely wrong.

thats what makes me inexperienced

You have apparently forgotten what its like being between level 60 and 80. I believe the real hump is at level 76 or something.
Then feel free to discuss the details on the other thread, come up with a sollution to the problem, and then post that "Better sollution" here. Just saying that everyone is wrong doesn't really help anything if you don't have alternatives.

Ok, so I'm doing something gravely wrong.

thats what makes me inexperienced

You have apparently forgotten what its like being between level 60 and 80. I believe the real hump is at level 76 or something.

I'm not saying everyone's wrong... You're just arguing with me in your usual roundabout fashion. I'll keep to this topic though, if you don't mind. You can't sweep me off the thread, ha!

And it's easy peasy to gain xp between 60-80.

Bashing 5% at level 60 takes minutes. You'd probably lose around that at level 60, right? I can't remember. It shouldn't take you hours to recover from that. The admins shouldn't have to take away experience loss because people are too lazy to maintain their experience. That's what some of the arguments I've heard boil down to.

The real hump is 79, btw. Worst level ever.

I was responding to Foreen silly...
You can give any hypothetical sitution you like. And you can explain how terrible people are at playing Lusternia.

That doesn't change the fact that sometimes, Not every time, just sometimes, after a big battle, a person will lose HOURS of work they have put into the game over a period of a few minutes.