QUOTE(Anisu @ Feb 14 2008, 02:44 PM) 486676
you 'lrn2read', I never said anything about level 60s, I only posted my experiences in support to Forren's comment.
To colour my following responses so that you all know where I'm coming from, here's my viewpoint. If you don't want to read it, skip to the dashed line.
Lvl 86 Human/changeling Paladin, trans planar, trans guild skills (well... sacraments doesn't help with bashing save HonourAura, Numen and HallowedGround, the latter two of which I rarely use if at all) with 100/100 fullplate, most other skills (sans riding) are virtuoso or above. Total play time: ~94 days. Birthday: 8th Estar 117
Lvl 62 Faeling Dreamweaver Blacktalon. Trans nothing (highest skill levels are Gifted in totems and dreamweaving) with 51/49 greatrobes. Total play time: ~8 days. Birthday: 20th Juliary 133
On BOTH characters, I've prayed in the last 2 weeks, mostly through my own fault like forgetting to refill health vials and bashing offpeak with only 4 members of celest online none of whom could survive the UV, though once was getting jumped while I was showing a squire fun stuff to do in the mountains.
As for me myself, I'm in college (Bio major, so I'm no CS freak like Forren) taking 19 out of 20 possible academic units over 5 classes (school average is 16) with about 5-6 hours of class a day, plus I work in a student garden 6 hours a week and work in a lab for an additional 4. I multitask bashing with problem sets, as many people on various clans can attest, and even then not every day. I'd put a rough estimate at about 5 hours bashing per week, if that, and yet I still made 86.
I defend, I've occasionally gone out and PK'd someone for something like killing a close guildmate in the past 2 days, I've occasionally gotten jumped... you name it, I've probably experienced it, even getting jumped, fending off the attackers, then turning around and getting jumped by original attacker + more 2 minutes later. That said, EXP loss is a joke. at 86, it's a joke, at 62 its a joke. At 20 it was a joke. I predict it's gonna continue to be a joke till the end of eternity.
=====================================================
Now for the good parts.
I'm sad that this issue even exists.... Exp is easy for me to come by, and I'm a casual player (vote weight 7). I spend a lot of time sitting around talking. I also go read documentation for how to use the client that I'm playing with. Seriously, making a trigger in zMUD is idiotproof, even moreso in MUSH. People complaining about not being able to code are just lazy. Sure you won't have a god-glorious system of PK superdoom, but you'll be able to survive most bashing after about 2 hours of research and 5 coding.
People complaining they can't bash gorgogs, hammerheads, or xion.... wtf are you still doing there then? Don't start bashing an area 'till you can actually survive it. That's like me whining that I can't permalink astral or tank manifestations without sipping.
People complaining about getting continually ganked: Stop being an ass and maybe you'll stop getting jumped. It worked for me. I don't go out of my way to jump people just for lolz the way I -know- some people out there do (*forsees a sharp increase in his getting ganked for the near future*).
Summary: Why the hell is everyone so impatient? Slow down a bit, enjoy the game, explore, quest, don't be an ass. It's really not that hard. Xp loss is fine as it is, and I could even stand to have it almost doubled and not flinch. Stat loss, as per the suggestion, would just suck because it would mean that I would have to re-evaluate my entire combat viability alltogether. I also see a problem with making it optional, because then you open up the whole can of worms as to how much stat loss over how much time is worth how much exp, and the whole whining debate starts over.
Aside to Malicia, I'm writing up what I remember from my timeline to knighthood. I remember that I didn't even get my first masterweapons till well after I was lvl50 and yet I had engaged in some group PK in defending and other fun stuff prior to that.... Squires expecting masterweapons to cost 2000 gold and be fully decked out by lvl 30 should just go die in a fire.
Summary response: I think the whiners are just too impatient. If they don't want to invest the time to get somewhere, then they're not gonna get it. They see the rewards, go "ooooh drool I want" and then when they actually have to *gasp* put some effort into a game, complain that attaining their goals are too difficult. However, I do see the major barriers to PVP and think that it would be highly awesome if something were done to address making entry into the PVP world easier. (Although, I must say, having a zergswarm of lolgankers would be pretty unsatisfying. The way things are now make sure that PVP types are invested in the game and aren't here just to cause havoc and lolz the way some "novices" are).
It's not -that- terrible.... the prayers have saved my posterior on numerous occasions. Where else do you get a 2 second eq shield usable while prone? or a free 1/2 Green that only takes 2 seconds and no mana AND usable while prone? Seriously... AngelFont is underrated... well, at least those two powers. I don't use the others ever. It's certainly a hell of a lot better than the Black Nest.
Yes but a.) you're insane and b.) you're crazy.
Heh, do away with alchemy and herbs, and make all potions and plants available through magic pathways on a tic similar to current balances. Then nobody would have to worry about going without a full cureset. (Somewhat in jest, but semiserious, too).
Note to myself: I think I'm turning into that bitter, sarcastic forum-goer that I formerly despised so very much....
Lvl 86 Human/changeling Paladin, trans planar, trans guild skills (well... sacraments doesn't help with bashing save HonourAura, Numen and HallowedGround, the latter two of which I rarely use if at all) with 100/100 fullplate, most other skills (sans riding) are virtuoso or above. Total play time: ~94 days. Birthday: 8th Estar 117
Lvl 62 Faeling Dreamweaver Blacktalon. Trans nothing (highest skill levels are Gifted in totems and dreamweaving) with 51/49 greatrobes. Total play time: ~8 days. Birthday: 20th Juliary 133
On BOTH characters, I've prayed in the last 2 weeks, mostly through my own fault like forgetting to refill health vials and bashing offpeak with only 4 members of celest online none of whom could survive the UV, though once was getting jumped while I was showing a squire fun stuff to do in the mountains.
As for me myself, I'm in college (Bio major, so I'm no CS freak like Forren) taking 19 out of 20 possible academic units over 5 classes (school average is 16) with about 5-6 hours of class a day, plus I work in a student garden 6 hours a week and work in a lab for an additional 4. I multitask bashing with problem sets, as many people on various clans can attest, and even then not every day. I'd put a rough estimate at about 5 hours bashing per week, if that, and yet I still made 86.
I defend, I've occasionally gone out and PK'd someone for something like killing a close guildmate in the past 2 days, I've occasionally gotten jumped... you name it, I've probably experienced it, even getting jumped, fending off the attackers, then turning around and getting jumped by original attacker + more 2 minutes later. That said, EXP loss is a joke. at 86, it's a joke, at 62 its a joke. At 20 it was a joke. I predict it's gonna continue to be a joke till the end of eternity.
=====================================================
Now for the good parts.
I'm sad that this issue even exists.... Exp is easy for me to come by, and I'm a casual player (vote weight 7). I spend a lot of time sitting around talking. I also go read documentation for how to use the client that I'm playing with. Seriously, making a trigger in zMUD is idiotproof, even moreso in MUSH. People complaining about not being able to code are just lazy. Sure you won't have a god-glorious system of PK superdoom, but you'll be able to survive most bashing after about 2 hours of research and 5 coding.
People complaining they can't bash gorgogs, hammerheads, or xion.... wtf are you still doing there then? Don't start bashing an area 'till you can actually survive it. That's like me whining that I can't permalink astral or tank manifestations without sipping.
People complaining about getting continually ganked: Stop being an ass and maybe you'll stop getting jumped. It worked for me. I don't go out of my way to jump people just for lolz the way I -know- some people out there do (*forsees a sharp increase in his getting ganked for the near future*).
Summary: Why the hell is everyone so impatient? Slow down a bit, enjoy the game, explore, quest, don't be an ass. It's really not that hard. Xp loss is fine as it is, and I could even stand to have it almost doubled and not flinch. Stat loss, as per the suggestion, would just suck because it would mean that I would have to re-evaluate my entire combat viability alltogether. I also see a problem with making it optional, because then you open up the whole can of worms as to how much stat loss over how much time is worth how much exp, and the whole whining debate starts over.
Aside to Malicia, I'm writing up what I remember from my timeline to knighthood. I remember that I didn't even get my first masterweapons till well after I was lvl50 and yet I had engaged in some group PK in defending and other fun stuff prior to that.... Squires expecting masterweapons to cost 2000 gold and be fully decked out by lvl 30 should just go die in a fire.
QUOTE(Malicia @ Feb 13 2008, 01:28 PM) 486322
Why should those who don't enjoy bashing, have things made easier for them?
They shouldn't. They should learn patience and quit doing stupid things like trying to bash xion as a lvl 50 merian tracker. It's a high level bashing groung ffs.
Is this about people who don't want to lose their precious xp when they choose to get involved in conflict?
Seems like that's the case to me.
Experience and essence can be viewed as the blood of Lusternia. Nothing else quite brings about a sense of accomplishment or loss, or factors in when it comes to raiding or hunting and so on. In various situations, it does force players to display a measure of care when engaging in various forms of combat. I prefer the current way of things, though something should be done about skills that negate any loss and allow others to operate with less risk involved.
I agree that it's good to force people to take caution. No xp loss has already been acknowledged to lead to more reckless behavior. However, I'm not so sure on that last point about doing away with loss negation all together. Conglute is damn nice
The risk factor makes things more interesting.
Amen to that.
My character could have been a titan ages ago. I just hate bashing. Those with the motivation can do it, slowly but surely. Let's not forget that praying is not a terribly huge deal. It has been softened once. It's the dying in enemy territory that hurts. That was implemented, I thought, as a deterrent or added risk for raiders/griefers.
They shouldn't. They should learn patience and quit doing stupid things like trying to bash xion as a lvl 50 merian tracker. It's a high level bashing groung ffs.
Is this about people who don't want to lose their precious xp when they choose to get involved in conflict?
Seems like that's the case to me.
Experience and essence can be viewed as the blood of Lusternia. Nothing else quite brings about a sense of accomplishment or loss, or factors in when it comes to raiding or hunting and so on. In various situations, it does force players to display a measure of care when engaging in various forms of combat. I prefer the current way of things, though something should be done about skills that negate any loss and allow others to operate with less risk involved.
I agree that it's good to force people to take caution. No xp loss has already been acknowledged to lead to more reckless behavior. However, I'm not so sure on that last point about doing away with loss negation all together. Conglute is damn nice
The risk factor makes things more interesting.
Amen to that.
My character could have been a titan ages ago. I just hate bashing. Those with the motivation can do it, slowly but surely. Let's not forget that praying is not a terribly huge deal. It has been softened once. It's the dying in enemy territory that hurts. That was implemented, I thought, as a deterrent or added risk for raiders/griefers.
Summary response: I think the whiners are just too impatient. If they don't want to invest the time to get somewhere, then they're not gonna get it. They see the rewards, go "ooooh drool I want" and then when they actually have to *gasp* put some effort into a game, complain that attaining their goals are too difficult. However, I do see the major barriers to PVP and think that it would be highly awesome if something were done to address making entry into the PVP world easier. (Although, I must say, having a zergswarm of lolgankers would be pretty unsatisfying. The way things are now make sure that PVP types are invested in the game and aren't here just to cause havoc and lolz the way some "novices" are).
QUOTE(Malicia @ Feb 13 2008, 02:01 PM) 486357
PSS. And fix the worthless pile of crap that is the Angelfont too! Thanks!
It's not -that- terrible.... the prayers have saved my posterior on numerous occasions. Where else do you get a 2 second eq shield usable while prone? or a free 1/2 Green that only takes 2 seconds and no mana AND usable while prone? Seriously... AngelFont is underrated... well, at least those two powers. I don't use the others ever. It's certainly a hell of a lot better than the Black Nest.
QUOTE(Forren @ Feb 13 2008, 06:32 PM) 486416
I talk while bashing - I'm extremely good at multitasking and pressing the arrow keys in time to ff. I never just sat around and talked though. I didn't make my own system til May of 2007, well after getting Demigod. My own combat stuff took less than an hour to make.
Yes but a.) you're insane and b.) you're crazy.
QUOTE(Nydekion @ Feb 14 2008, 10:44 AM) 486584
I think the premise behind the suggested change is in error. New or inexperienced people who come in and consider trying out combat aren't disenfranchised by the experience loss on death as much as much as they are the high investment necessary to compete. Let's face it, it takes transing or close to transing at least one guild skillsets and a couple of common skillsets; an entire assortments of vials (with the requisite potion/elixir/salve), herbs, scrolls, and armor; and a good system that's either purchased or personally coded. In the end, this is a very large initial investment that many people do not have the time or money to waste on, particularly the community that holds steady jobs, haven't done much prior coding (or even have!), and just want to sit back and relax. Death losses really pale in comparison to that issue, I think.
Heh, do away with alchemy and herbs, and make all potions and plants available through magic pathways on a tic similar to current balances. Then nobody would have to worry about going without a full cureset. (Somewhat in jest, but semiserious, too).
Note to myself: I think I'm turning into that bitter, sarcastic forum-goer that I formerly despised so very much....
