I found yoouu!

To everyone thinking that this has something to do with people whining and being impatient.
The idea was suggested by an Admin. Nobody was discussing this until an admin brought it up.

...Again, prompted by whining and impatience and laziness from players.

Or by low populations. Only Morgfyre knows what prompted it.

To everyone thinking that this has something to do with people whining and being impatient.
The idea was suggested by an Admin. Nobody was discussing this until an admin brought it up.
The only reason the admins brought it up was because of the constant talk elsewhere about losing EXP, so you're wrong about nobody discussing it. The idea is a proposed admin idea to an ongoing talked about problem (and props to Morgfyre for taking the initiative and coming up with a solution himself rather than waiting for us to do it).

If "risk" is interesting, then the risk is interegesting regardless of it being xp loss or stat loss, or whatever loss. If xp less is negligable and unimportant. (to some people) then how is removing xp loss entirely make things any worse? It sounds like people are saying, "Don't complain, you allready lose 0 xp, why would losing less help?". But the idea that most people who have supported idea have liked is that it makes death more meaningfull, not less. i.e. there is now actually a down side to dieing.
XP loss doesn't hinder your ability to continue to engage in combat and/or bashing. Stat loss does. Further, just because I rationalize the loss as small enough to not warrant OMGWTF does not mean that the loss doesn't exist. For example, I used coach 8 year olds for a youth soccer league. A reward as small as a piece of candy (considered "insignificant" by most) will literally have them eating out of your hand. Small enough to not be a big deal, yes, since I can bash up 5% exp in about an hour or buy a huge bag of assorted candy for 5$, but the effects and feeling of reward (or loss) are still there.

Currently, it sounds like there is no downside to dieing on a regular basis, an a huge downside to dieing in special circumstances.
Sure there is. You have to go bash back the EXP you lost, but it's still possible to maintain a positive exp output even for a casual player who does not bash 100% of the time. That is what I consider good balance.

The new proposal would make an equally negetive experience to dieing every time a death occurs. (for varying amounts of time) This point never seems to be addressed by the nae-sayers.
If you mean equally negative to everyone, yes, but I'm not totally sure what your point is here. EXP loss is still equally negative for everyone, just that the really crazy people bash it back faster (I'm gonna stay faaaar away from lich/transmigrate whatever).

The idea was proposed in a setting of "would things be better if" , not "The world is going to end if we don't do x"
And the general consensus seems to be "no" on both counts.

It really sounds like the wrong arguments are being made, as if there isn't even a discussion happening.

I'm also going to make the argument that the lack of mid-level bashing areas contributes more to decline in interest than experience loss.

Wrong. Pretty much every racial area (lucidians/dracnari/aslarans/krokani/merians) are more than bashable at midbie levels, and apart from possibly the lucidian/dracnari there is someone you can turn them into for an extra 3k or so of gold. You can also influence multiple places easily, there's a huge amount of places you can do that pretty much nonstop. Then there's questing which you can farm in-between bashing areas too for a nice steady rate of xp and gold. I suggest that you actually make an alt and take a serious look at things before spouting off the same ignorant that people have been complaining about for years.

Wrong. Pretty much every racial area (lucidians/dracnari/aslarans/krokani/merians) are more than bashable at midbie levels, and apart from possibly the lucidian/dracnari there is someone you can turn them into for an extra 3k or so of gold. You can also influence multiple places easily, there's a huge amount of places you can do that pretty much nonstop. Then there's questing which you can farm in-between bashing areas too for a nice steady rate of xp and gold. I suggest that you actually make an alt and take a serious look at things before spouting off the same ignorant that people have been complaining about for years.

Aslaran and krokani are bashed out frequently. Merians and spectres don't work for Celest. Lucidian and dracnari team and can actually be fairly scary for low con caster types. The best is Carai Caroo, and I'm willing to bet that I'm one of maybe three people in the game who knows how to get to it with any consistency.

Spectres beat them all. Merians aren't exactly bashable, though, since they'll get you Celest-hunted (not worth it for the casual basher who doesn't want to get jumped).

It's not -that- terrible.... the prayers have saved my posterior on numerous occasions. Where else do you get a 2 second eq shield usable while prone? or a free 1/2 Green that only takes 2 seconds and no mana AND usable while prone? Seriously... AngelFont is underrated... well, at least those two powers. I don't use the others ever. It's certainly a hell of a lot better than the Black Nest.

Wrong. Pretty much every racial area (lucidians/dracnari/aslarans/krokani/merians) are more than bashable at midbie levels, and apart from possibly the lucidian/dracnari there is someone you can turn them into for an extra 3k or so of gold. You can also influence multiple places easily, there's a huge amount of places you can do that pretty much nonstop. Then there's questing which you can farm in-between bashing areas too for a nice steady rate of xp and gold. I suggest that you actually make an alt and take a serious look at things before spouting off the same ignorant that people have been complaining about for years.

Aslaran and krokani are bashed out frequently. Merians and spectres don't work for Celest. Lucidian and dracnari team and can actually be fairly scary for low con caster types. The best is Carai Caroo, and I'm willing to bet that I'm one of maybe three people in the game who knows how to get to it with any consistency.

2 out of 5 prayers is nowhere near good - and especially as the prayers can be negated by the death of the corresponding Supernal, but that's a rant for another time! I'd prefer green, if I have the power. I often forget to use Elohora's prayer, but yes it could be useful. I also agree with the other points you made, except for the one about the Squires dying in a fire. Meanie.

I feel like I'm arguing with a wall. Or a fish.

The best is Carai Caroo, and I'm willing to bet that I'm one of maybe three people in the game who knows how to get to it with any consistency.

Don't forget about Snow Valley, Verasavir Valley, the Kiakodan Reserve, and the upper Caves of Muhalanesh

Iraen thinks of cooler room names than I. (an aether ship.)
A red fox stands here, cautiously listening to the surroundings.
You see a single exit leading south.
3270h, 4890m, 5160e, 10p, 14350en, 22450w elrx /02:08:08.906/<>-

Read News, fill vials from fountain

nightsight UP
3270h, 4890m, 5160e, 10p, 14350en, 22450w elrx /02:10:40.906/<>-

thirdeye UP
3270h, 4860m, 5160e, 10p, 14350en, 22450w elrx /02:10:41.062/<>-

Spend time deffing up. Check starting score.

| Experience : #60 1st Rank of the Infinit Level : 90 (21.80%) |
3540h, 4597m, 5160e, 7p, 14450en, 21852w elrxkdb /02:11:21.437/<>-

Walk to Nexus and link

Your link to the Moonhart Mother Tree is severed as your power reserves are saturated.
3540h, 4890m, 5160e, 10p, 14964en, 22134w elrxkdb /02:13:10.281/<>-

Run around looking for something to start bashing.
Finally start in Mesa, first score check after starting

You attempt the kata form of hunt.
You slice through a trill warrior in a graceful arc with a staghorn blade inlaid with a silvery rack of antlers.
A lucidian warrior springs to a trill warrior's defence.
You slice through a trill warrior in a graceful arc with a staghorn blade inlaid with a silvery rack of antlers.
With a quick spin, you kick a trill warrior with your right foot.
3540h, 4890m, 5160e, 10p, 15226en, 22364w exkdb /02:15:40.937/<>-

| Experience : #60 1st Rank of the Infinit Level : 90 (21.84%) |
3540h, 4890m, 5160e, 10p, 15200en, 22426w elrxkdb /02:16:01.515/<>-


Finish bashing gila, sandojin, lucidians, trills, dashro, coyotes, sabretooth cats, taurian, and hares

| Experience : #60 1st Rank of the Infinit Level : 90 (22.87%) |
3540h, 4890m, 5160e, 10p, 15244en, 22450w elrxkdb /02:43:17.812/<>-

Run back to Serenwilde and offer.

3540h, 4890m, 5160e, 10p, 15314en, 22450w elrxkdb /02:44:04.359/<>-

Go make something to eat then go bash again.

With a quick spin, you kick a krokani guard with your right foot.
3540h, 4890m, 5160e, 10p, 15661en, 22450w exkdb /02:49:17.281/<>-

Finish bashing krokani, aslaran, lucidians, trill, sandojin.
Check at 1 hour of online time.

| Experience : #60 1st Rank of the Infinit Level : 90 (24.07%) |
3540h, 4890m, 5160e, 10p, 14947en, 22450w elrxkdb /03:08:07.109/<>-

With grim, final resolve you gather the mental strength to slay yourself and as a tear drops from your eye, you end your time on this mortal coil by stopping your heart in an instant.
You have been slain by misadventure.
A swirling force begins to tug at your soul and the world spins around you.
0h, 4890m, 5160e, 10p, 14350en, 22450w elrx /03:41:34.421/<>-

| Experience : #60 1st Rank of the Infinit Level : 90 (22.60%) |

stuff

Carai Caroo? It was a pain in the butt to get there with all the waves nonsense...and a huge disappointment when I finally did make it. Of course, I was near 80 at the time...but still, hard to find. Unless there is a way you people are hiding.