Rofl.

I think you do have to admit there's a pretty heavy divide of opinion in this thread between the so-called "hardcore bashers" (whether demigod/titan or not) and more casual bashers. The first group is the one most likely to attain Demigod/Titan status, obviously.

That's not to say that we need a thread that excludes the first group (since that wouldn't exactly be a great method of polling), but it does appear pretty apparent that there IS this divide.

Not everyone who PKs is making an ass of himself, and Billy Bob will probably have a hard time making an ass of himself when he loses conglut/lich/drawdown/nightkiss/whatever from the death sickness penalty, plus has a reduction in stats, lowing his health/mana/ego and making him easier to kill.

That is the most attractive part of the idea to me as well.

Forren hates change. It's not like he's ever going to lose demi. Combine the two, and there's no self-serving reason for him to look at a new system.

Sure there is. A whole slew of new casual gameers/ pkers to grief.

Or if you want to be able to keep experience through death, but still slow the reach to Titan/Demigod, you could implement slower experience as a detriment of dying. Ie, your experience gain is decreased until has passed from the time of death, returning in a linear fashion from 50%(immediately after death) to 100%(after time has passed) of normal experience gain levels. Not that this really affects me in any way whatsoever...

That's an interesting idea, but I still believe that dying should have some real and immediate impact on your character. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to this being part of a new idea.

It also seems like there are a lot of concerns brought up about skill loss, so what if it were just stat loss (or stat loss combined with slowed xp gain)?

I do agree there's a divide. Those who have done fine under the current system like it tend to feel the opposite of these changes - people pray way too little, people lose too little, death doesn't have enough of a consequence. One thing death does is allow you to lose something and still allow you to keep on going. I referenced forcefield earlier in the thread - when you burned out, you'd be unable to effectively bash for an hour.

Do you people really think you'll like being unable to effectively bash for an hour? If you think that's better than experience loss, you're doing something wrong with how you play. This change will make life worse for you.

Do you think if I kill you on Nil, you should then be less able to defend against me? Do you want to be unable to effectively bash for an hour after I raid, or lose a tiny bit of experience if I kill you after you lich?

The second group, while they feel they are held back because of experience loss, are actually held back because of their own motivation. This change will kill motivation, not enhance it. It will only serve to help keep people at the top, with no motivation to keep up this status.

And Xavius/Daganev- I hate change. If it ain't broke, why fix it? The only things broken on Lusternia in relation to experience are both the gross percentage of people who are immune to experience loss altogether and the number of level 99s/100s we have compared to every other IRE, and their ease of maintenance.

Yeah, but then that discourages people from getting involved in conflict at all. At least, unless you've already met your goal in experience, or unless you're half-Divine. Which probably isn't what the admins want.

Hmmm. But I like the idea in some respects... maybe no penalty until level 60, then this penalty kicks in? So most newbies can get used to the game, and to conflict in general?

As Morgfyre just stated, the skill-loss is negotiable (and I did have some concerns about that, but not about the shift in general away from experience loss). I'm fine with taking a break after I die bashing for a bit, because, well-- I'm not a heavy basher. I don't spend a few hours straight bashing very often. If I lost a few stat points and had slowed experience gain after a death, I'd think about whether I really wanted to get a few more experience points, or if I wanted to do something else for a bit. I still have the choice, because I still *can* go hunting. I'll just use up more sparkleberry.

I don't see how it would discourage people from getting involved in conflict. I definitely would imagine it to be less of a deterrent than losing experience instantaneously. You would just have to death with a slight grace period after death where you have reduced (not even nullified) experience gain, after which time you are back on track with effectively zero loss. Perhaps I am failing to see how it would be worse. I would then expect experience-mitigation skills to either reduce the time this affects a player by, or lessen the reduction (say, to 75% rather than 50%).

However, I think that Demigods should still lose essence on death, whether it is as well as slower essence gain, or separate from that. And I think demigod death costs should be higher, but people will just say that I am saying this because I can't lose Ascendant.

The concerns seem to be mostly with planar. If it's guild skills only, I don't see a problem.

I'm by far my guild's most active elected leader, a trademaster, a mentor with active, learning, and attention-demanding protegees, and a PKer. I dare say there's something wrong with how you play, if you think the best Lusty has to offer is bashing. Bashing is only slightly more entertaining than shovelling snow.

I do. I don't think that giving raiders extra momentum in the opening moments is a good decision. Remember, you're the one who was always bringing up the whole "momentum" argument, and when you add in skill-loss of important abilities (hexes, knighthood-specs, sacraments, etc.) you're severely shifting the battle even more in favour of the aggressors.

I think just stat loss would be sufficient. But as a Titan I admit I have a lot of stats to lose, so I may be biased.

I think Demigod essence loss should stay as it is/be increased. I don't like how it's impossible to lose and conveys far more benefits than even titan. But people will just say that it's because I'm not a Demigod, so whatever

Has anyone suggested permadeath yet? I tend to skim threads filled with inane argument and people trying to convince other people how much better they understand every intricacy of the game's mechanics.

But yeah, permadeath is the way to go.

A drop in Ka is nasty. Every monk will have to have 'prime' forms and then 'I died' forms. Hrm.

I'd be ok with that in this case. It puts a hard cap on how long people can raid. I don't mind losing horribly as long as the raiders can't raid forever.

Ilyarin, I'm mainly thinking of new players trying to bash in "enemy territory." When younger players get ganked by certain folks, then become unable to try levelling up for however long it occurs, things can get frustrating. Especially when they have almost zero life as it is, and have no way to really better themselves.

Then again. Deaths taking away your ability to get experience, as well as causing minor skill reductions in certain offensive skills, would pause ganking in itself. It would also solve the thorny issue of how to discourage people from 24/7 bashing sprees.

I think I'm starting to warm up to this idea. Let's keep talking about it.

There's something wrong with how you play if you currently can't maintain positive experience gain over a set period of time.