Oh and what is with the ONLY ideas for supposed conflict quests being ":censor: with Mag till they fix it" instead of ":censor: with the entire basin till they fix it"? ":censor: with Mag" isn't a conflict quest - by their very nature, conflict quests affect more than just one organization. All ":censor: with Mag" quests do is grief the second smallest playerbase till they quit out of disgust and move to Glom.

Win

I have been considering how best to say this without seeming rude. There is a good portion of Celest players, indeed I would say most of the players who normally take the initiative in leading Celest into new ventures, that do not trust the administration to act in their best interests. The Angelfont fiasco is not the only thing that has inspired this wariness but I think it's the single biggest incident that severed the trust. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you don't really need to know.

Now I am not saying this to make the admin feel guilty or prompt responses of how we should get over it or it's just silly to not trust the admin. Why the trust isn't there is irrelevant. What is relevant is that due to the wariness, and outright suspicion on some people's parts, they will never put themselves in a position where the admin can yank out the rug from them again. And organizing a city to go out and put forth a great deal of effort in attempting to RP a non-odious solution seems like exactly the sort of situation asking for us to be disappointed again.

I am all for people a little less jaded to go out and take the initiative on something like this and if they were rewarded for their efforts, that would be great. But players aren't lemmings and expecting them to continually make that leap of faith when they have been disappointed before, is not going to happen.

Don't forget the promise to work on the Darknest if it was ever built. That never happened once it was built. :/

I regret if we have fallen below expectations on those constructs, and hope we will be able to earn your trust in the future. Regarding the Angelfont specifically, I have said before that I regretted making a hasty decision. Truthfully, we have found the nexus world system to be disappointing and our focus has been on trying to refine it to the point where players regularly participate before looking at the constructs. Hopefully with the greatly increased gold you can earn during nexus battles has helped!

It'll probably take up a while to get back into momentum with that. Right now I don't think anyone cares yet.

Want a solution to the nexus world battles? Change it back to where you could actually feasibly destroy a construct in one weakening, with good planning and hard work. Nexus battles and constructs were meant to provide optional conflict. No one had to build them, yet people complained (mostly Mag players) about having to defend them. Why did they complain? Because the Crypt is just so good they don't want to be without it and hence, felt obligated to defend it. That and it's expensive.

1. Downgrade major constructs. Especially the crypt. Make constructs give fun perks- like the ability to fly or burrow. Free reincarnations every ic month. *more ideas here* Maybe things that enhance rp (the archlich mention in one's honours alone is pretty neat) and so on. Things an org won't feel absolutely devastated about losing, if it's destroyed. Or maybe it's too late, as everyone's used to them. People would probably complain either way.

2. Remove some of the construct changes. They shouldn't be webbing, shielding and running around. They're constructs! They're not colossi.

3. Address some of the issues that constructs have been assigned to address, seemingly. I know that certain envoys desired various upgrades to lichdom that were not implemented until the Crypt was designed. Glomdoring wanted a res ability. Benediction was too costly before, so the Angelfont got an addition that erased the cost, but then envoys finally found a solution and honestly, using power for it isn't so bad. These seem like envoy issues. Constructs shouldn't have had anything to do with that.

Anyhoo, I'm rambling and this is off topic. I apologize!

I would personally rather the latter.

This is the best suggestion, when not taken to such extremes leastways.

You claim this makes them more optional benefits, but unfortunately, if you consider Glomdoring for one -- they will be benefits that are the furthest thing from optional. They will be impossible for them to ever keep.

People in Mag did not complain because their constructs were too good to lose. They complained because they could miss one weakening, having no defenders around, and show up to see it destroyed.

With that being said though, they do need to be made much more destroyable than they are now. Just not to the extreme of having one golden hour to deal with less than a handful of people to hinder an entire org.

even when it took only two weakenings they complained, the first complaining celest got when they took down the crypt was 'you did not let Magnagora play with their construct meanies' the last one was 'stop trying to make people pray'

(I predicted them becoming something people would assume a right rather than a priviledge the moment the crypt came out by the way, you can ask Catarin)

There was also complaining when it took three weakenings. The complaining did not stop until it was impossible to take them down.

I don't recall complaining at three weakenings but my memory may be faulty.

I think 2-3 weakenings is fine--actually I think that's where it is meant to be now.

I think one weakening is unreasonable, regardless of how well prepared the attacker is.

I can find the posts but one time it took us about 4 back to back weakenings to destroy a construct and there was an immediate outcry. People are going to complain regardless of how much effort it takes the attacker.

Well, I said nothing about that and it really has no bearing on what I did say. If they complained about that, then that's good for them and hopefully we can all coalesce in one giant gut-laugh together at their expense.

That being said, you all speak as if your own orgs haven't become too accustomed to having their constructs.

Anisu -- I bet serens would complain about finally having to pray too and are likely more "assured" of always having it than Magnagora ever was or will be.

As far as Celest goes, I know of people that certainly have hunted starsuckers without mending of any sort knowing that they can rely on praying to Elohora to cure. That says a lot more for reliance and expectations than not wanting to pray ever would, I'm afraid.

but the complaining is relevant when they lead to making it virtually impossible to destroy constructs.

I predicted it for all except Celest actually (and that only because Celest ended up getting a sucky one). Although personally I would have neither cold nor warm when Serenwilde's constructs go down, the only one I really use is the harmony one for extra experience. And I can hunt xion without mending it is not a elohora only praying thing.

oh please. You're reaching now. A bunch of midbies saving on mending with elohora's prayer? I doubt it and it still wouldn't justify the angelfont's cost.

Edit: Just lol. And restore comes in handy if you want to bash easy things like starsuckers without mending.

I wasn't trying to justify the cost!

Doubt that could be done, but that is neither here nor there.

However, it does illustrate that some, and midbies should be considered, do rely and expect them to be there in the same matter others are accused of doing. That's all I was saying by that.

Anisu, you are right in that the complaining likely got it successively dimished and that is sometimes the case. Estarra clearly just said that it's not, or isn't intended to be, as bad as you all claim it to be though. It sounds a lot like you just want to be able to exploit one grossly overpowered side and make them pay for those few moments of weakness. It reminds me a lot of demigod havens getting nerfed for being overpowered, and then the admins turning around and offering the same effects to people for one hour's worth of work. Why should the one hour's worth of work be better than the countless hours put in by a demigod?

More focused though, why should the benefits be put into the hands of a few people in the middle of the off-peak hours to defend and that's that? We've already established that they affect everyone from the org, so therefore we must assume they should all be allowed a part in defending them.

I don't think anyone is looking to exploit anything. I think participants want to get something out of it. Consider the cost of good ships, lessons invested into aethercraft and its specializations and the cost of colossi materials. Then the time it takes to get everyone involved and interested. It's taxing. I know Catarin busts her rear trying to get people motivated and interested in aetherspace. I've tried too. Then take into account construct defenders and their preparation. No one expects to waltz in and out of it. Even before all the changes that made it easier for the defenders, it was tough. I don't think Celest did well by exploiting Magnagora during off-peak times. It's not like anyone determines when a weakening occurs. I believe it'd take more than 3 attacks, even against a weak defense, to bring down a construct.

erm I never said they would have to be easy to take down, but when you can not put up a defense during 2 weakenings that happen on a beforehand known time, randomly generated after each weakening. You do not deserve to have the construct up, constructs are a testimate of power and if you can not defend them then you do not have it, but in lusternia instead of accepting ok we will have to wait until we are stronger you just go to the forums and call the other team griefers (in a non joking way) and others will hop on the bandwagon ending in admins nerfing things. And yes Estarra says now it is not intented like it is now, but if the constructs keep things like lich then people will whine again, and admins will cave in again.

I really like Malicia's Angel Aura suggestion. Just give it a few resistances and a stat buff and remove the prayers and it looks good.