Personally, Catarin, I'm more for upgrading to be on par with Seren/Mag's instead of nerfing theirs to be on par with ours... simply because ours always leads to a discussion about whether it's really even worth having them built. For things that we *want* people to build so we can do the whole Nexus-battle thing, we're spending an awful lot of time trying to justify keeping them built as the power drains that they are.

Take a look at some of Cat's posts. She IS levelheaded, you can't deny that.

If each org decided on someone to represent them in the construct changes then Celest wouldn't end up with any decent upgrades at all.

It'd be better if the Admins (perhaps T, Lisaera/Charune, Morgfyre, and Virivain), all picked people they thought were levelheaded and good candidates from each org. Or something along those lines.

And I think Estarra was only saying that Celest and Glom's constructs were getting upgrades. Sounds like Seren's and Mag's constructs are being left alone.

The problem we've had with committees is that instead of one person with one vision creating a strong unified proposal, that often we get fragmented weak proposals because of compromises/politicking and, for want of a better analogy, earmarks (strange addendums as a result of compromises).

What about a committee with one person at the head who is the final arbiter?

Sounds more like it needs to be decided one way or the other. Nerf half, or buff half.

But shouldn't we have those conversations? Shouldn't it always be a debate as to whether it should even be built or be kept? It does not have to be ridiculous to really want to build it. We would never consider tearing down our planar constructs, even without the free discretionary powers. Why? Because they're a reasonable cost and they're very handy. They're not unbalancing. They're not crazy.

To me that seems like that should be the goal. To have smaller constructs that are cheaper but quite handy. It will not be devastating if it's destroyed and they need rebuilding. There is not a whole lot of mechanical benefit. It's a heck of a lot easier to think of smaller benefits that are not unbalancing then attempting to come up with something that compares to an entire city getting an extremely nice trans skill or long range soul rezz!

Buffing half makes constructs more of a 'must have'. This won't really solve the problem of being able to tear them down because of recent nerfs. So, why try when you'll have to do it more than once?

Nerfing half makes them more of an option, which is what I think constructs should be. Not a strict given. Make them easier to tear down while they give less. Still something to defend, but not a total loss that sends armies of whiners to the forums as soon as it goes down. Less grumbling from players. More fairness all around.

Thinking it over, though, either all constructs need to have self-rezz or no rezz capabilities at all.

That seems more likely to get the desired results.

Doesn't this kind of support my argument? We wouldn't seriously consider tearing ours down, either, yet we've been debating both the Night Altar and the DarkNest (because they have a significantly higher cost, for kind of meh rewards). Shouldn't the big ones be at least as desirable for their costs as the smaller ones?

The thing about the angelfont is only 2 of Celest's guilds use Sacraments so for the most part(before the font) it was 10p for us to rezz or sac anyone. When we had events or big fights I'd overdraw simply from using those two skills(and benedictions on occasion beforehand) with no leeway from the Power Minister(they may have eventually changed that, I don't recall), which means I had to payback what I went over. Immolate wasnt an option for resurrection as it was considered the last course of action because it cost the city and was recommended for only when someone wasn't there to rezz. So for those of us you lot come to for aid the Angelfont is alot of help.

This sounds fine. I'm surprised you're giving up the power-free Resurrections, but ok.



This actually sounds really fair. Actually, the revised Sacrifice sounds like it hurts about as much as losing Lich upon death, in terms of power consumed.



Whoa. The reason why I'm less enthusiastic about this skill is that a dual-wielder, let's say a blademaster, would be able to make three sensitivity attacks in a round- the two envenomed weapons, plus this. If the third attack was a Heartpierce, for instance, that would make this skill able to do massive amounts of damage in one shot, at no power cost. It would certainly up the damage on lunges/crushes. I understand that there's a possibility to instead set the target on fire, but I think this particular ability should probably be considered a little more strongly.



I don't think there's a reason that you'd have to prevent people from praying to other Supernals while praying to Raziela, unless that's an RP thing on your part. The Faeriefire equivalent is really powerful in combat, though, as it strips shroud, so I think I'd debate it.

Glowing Waterfall: Celest construct
- Gives the Waterlord's Blessing defense.
- People with the Waterlord's Blessing can flood like an Aquamancer.

Dark Chasm: Magnagoran construct
- Gives the Earthlord's Might defense.
- People with the Earthlord's Might can taint like a Geomancer.

@Karnagan- Well, the reason I wouldn't mind seeing power free resurrections go is because it only cost 1p to resurrect someone with sacraments. Celestines/Paladins pay the full 10p to raise low leveled players that can't benefit from the Font yet. Last thing is the issue with immolate. Costs 0p and just as good as the sacrament ability of resurrect. All orgs have resurrect now, with the spires.

@Meliana- There were always provisions in place to deal with allowing people who used their power to sac/res. There used to be a chelp scroll listing the names of all people with those abilities.

Right but the idea would be to adjust them to the point where their costs/benefits are on par. Why do we *have* big ones? Why do we need to have them? I can attack a little construct just as readily as the big one. So isn't it more beneficial in the long run to stick with smaller constructs that are not must haves and not a huge drain on resources? They're all attacked the same.

True, I figured it wouldn't be the huge drain on Willpower that the Black Crypt is for novices. Maybe the Angelfont can remove its draining effects on mana/willpower, so that novices can get to use them? That said, you're right: with the towers up, the actual need to resurrect anyone is pretty much at zero.

Well, there's less reason to attack a construct that doesn't really give your opponents a huge benefit as well (perceived or otherwise). I'm not entirely sure how much the gold was upped, but if it was significant, that might overcome a fair bit of that.

Anyways, the Nightaltar buff that the envoys submitted is as follows:
Add the following skill to the Night Altar: "Nightwraith Release". While this isn't an ability in a skillset, we have precedence for suggesting Construct modifications with the Prayer change a couple of reports back.

1. This ability requires you to have full health/mana/ego/power (10p on the prompt). "You must restore yourself to physical perfection before you can seek Mother Night's blessing here."
2. It costs 50% of your mana to cast, and cannot be forced.
3. When LOOKing, one will see, "A deep gloom suffuses the air here" (or something of the sort). Would last 5 minutes, and be overwritten by actual released Night-Shadows.
4. If a Nightwraith is not in the room, this gloom is gustable (like Contagion is gustable if there is no lich in the room).
5. This will allow the Drink ability to work (other Shadowdancer skills would still require an actual released shadow).

Hmm, not too keen on the tanting/flooding...

If I may add, while a construct's usefulness may draw people in to attack it, the power gain for destroying one should provide more incentive now, with the Ascendants. That's one of the best parts about it- only destroying a construct is way more difficult than it should be. /derail

At the same time, that's a disincentive to rebuild it, since if it's being consistently attacked you're essentially channeling your power to another organization. (Also, the longer it's been up, the less power it gives for destroying it)

If you can't defend it, you shouldn't rebuild it. Optional conflict. It won't hurt anyone if they're not rebuilt. But if they are up, defenders and raiders should have an equal chance at success. It ways heavily in the favour of defenders, now.

Okay... so at that point, we get to Celest and Serenwilde having the only constructs, which just give them minor benefits. Thus, the system doesn't really even get used... the entire point of them being "good" is to encourage them to be built, despite the drain.