Which then brings into question whether or not I should go eat Seren corpses when I see them die in neutral territory, such as Faethorn, and force someone to sacrifice for them.

My point? If they're dead and need to be immolated, they're losing experience anyways. If you start saying, "Well, we need to make you lose MORE," well... everyone has that capability. It's not a good path to take, in my opinion, but you'll do what you have to I suppose.

My point is that it is disheartening to see everyone else losing experience EVERY time regardless of what happens with their bodies, while a Mag can die 20 times and pray once and still be ahead compared to everyone else.

So, thanks for agreeing with the second part of my point, which was that no, people shouldn't be forced to pray if they're losing experience every time they die anyway.

A Magnagoran on defense is likely to be forced to pray more than 1 times in 20, especially the younger ones with smaller power rations and/or more desire to help than knowledge of what they're doing. These are the ones without conglutination, by the way, who are the ones affected by not returning corpses. Same would be the case for Glomdoring-- you'd be punishing younger folk who are losing experience on most deaths for the more experienced ones who don't.

And if you're thanking me for "agreeing with you," perhaps you aren't quite sure what your point is.

Oh, then let me clarify:

I'd gladly force a regular lich/egg person to pray.

So I should gladly force someone who gets resurgemed frequently, especially after raiding Ethereal Glomdoring, to require people to sacrifice for them... because they're avoiding praying, so let's punish them. (Especially as they can't actually be forced to pray)

Well, as you already pointed out, they'd already be losing experience regularly. But whatever floats your boat I guess.

And? You're discussing punishing people because you're frustrated. How is it any different if it's frustration because of small (but more frequent) losses, or rarer and bigger losses?

It's smaller and more frequent losses FOR TWO PEOPLE. Now if it was smaller and more frequent losses for only the sacrificer (or only the sacrificee) it'd be a better comparison.

It's only two people if Seren's enemies decide, "Hey, those guys are taking out their frustration on us and there's not much we can do about it except... hm, well, make them use their construct and punish their members that way. Well, we're frustrated ourselves, so let's just do it so we're all frustrated together!"

It is easily different. Let's assume no one ever forces anyone to pray, and all corpses are returned:

Mag who lich consistantly dies 20 times but loses no experience at all.
Seren dies 20 times but gets resurgemed every time. They lose a small amount of experience every time.

Now, the way I see it:

Mag liches 19 times and has to pray once. In the end, they lose a larger chunk of experience once.
Seren still dies 20 times and is resurgemed every time. Small amount of experience x 20.

I reckon that's more even. Now, the way you are presenting it:

Mag liches 19 times and is forced to pray once. Loses a large chunk of experience once.
Seren dies 20 times. They lose a small amount of experience 20 times. However, their friends have to soul resurgem them 20 times too, so in the end, Serens die a total of 40 times. You could argue not to soul resurgem, but then the first Seren would just have to pray X amount of times.

Now, that's only Seren. There is also Celest and a large part of Glom to factor in.

And still, your numbers are off. Of the people who are most likely to be forced to pray, the numbers are nowhere near 1 in 20 (especially when the Celestian raid squad rolls through with eye sigils). Go up a lot higher.

That said: The frustration will *always* be on the side currently getting "hammered". Whether it's because you're losing small bits of exp now and then, or whether you're losing large chunks, if you play the game to "force the other side to feel what you feel," they're going to respond. Period.

They do that every single time anyway. Magnagora, at least. Glomdoring fights less but whenever they do we end up having to sacrifice some.

Magnagora might, but Glomdoring (as far as I know, at least, which means when I'm around) doesn't purposefully destroy corpses outside of raid defense. Hm. Excepting Bashara, who likes to behead our own citizens corpses for some reason.

(However, the Behead skill in Knighthood does destroy corpses, which does unfortunately lead to that end. Maybe "headless corpses" should still be rezzable.)

I stopped arguing for anyone but myself quite a few posts back.

And I'm just pointing out what taking your frustration out on others can lead to. It's not like I'm arguing for myself at all here, anyways-- I can't pray anymore.

I think everyone is going to get frustrated when there is any kind of imbalance with respect to exactly what cost death gives you. Either you get annoyed that the other group loses less than you or you get annoyed that you are "forced" to lose more than you expect (by being pushed back to the default of praying).

I personally would like to see constructs open up more ways to kill, more ways to avoid death, or more utility options, rather than more ways to avoid the consequences of death. Each new method to mitigate the results of death is either going to have to be a copy of an existing one, or it is going to cause continued back and forth debates on who is getting screwed more.

Honestly the fact Ninjakari make masks means far more often than before a corpse is destroyed as its the only way to get a mask. Otherwise we dont generally destroy corpses, when I raided water I left the corpse and told the other person to immolate em. When I raided Celestia a little later I didnt just say to ress the corpse I THREW it to the pool so it would be easier.

Now either lich is being left in whichcase I assume the other constructs are looking at a buff. Or the lich to all is being removed in which case we would want a way to ress our fallen fellows.

Now, if only everyone else did the same.

I do acknowledge that there are Serens who do offer any corpses, even if they do not have lich/conglutinate/other skill, though.

I think headless ones are rezzable. Galaphyrae dropped one to use in place of a Seren sacrificing, and it worked.

It counts as a corpse and can be offered AFAIK, but you can't resurrect it.