Right. It's even worth the same essence to offer as the original. It probably should be rezzable (by immolation / resurgem / rez) just 'cause asking warriors not to use their instakill is probably not going to happen.

Somehow you managed before the city-wide lich or free-immolation? And I don't seem to find any difference in corpses being left to be resurrected when there are Ninjakari there or not.

Every organization should not be entitled to a no-experience loss alternative.

The single most fair (and efficient) way to balance the experience loss of each organization is to remove all organization-specific resurrection skills (Sacrifice, Resurrection, Resurgem, DarkRebirth, Lich (the death avoidance part)). Remove Transmigration, too, I suppose, though druids really do need something to make up for their horrid bashing.

But since that's never going to happen, I approve of Xenthos' ideas for both Glomdoring constructs.

The next best alternative would be just to make all current no-exp loss skills have a small exp loss as well.

Been tried.

Why was it turned down?

It wasn't liked.

No, Xikue is correct on this one in the sense that headless corpses can be used as sacrifices. I'm unsure that they can be used to resurgem the original owner of the body since I've never come across that situation, but it probably does work too.

... please read both Shiri's and my responses again, since you didn't bother to this time. Thanks!

I read both posts. Try reading mine. You said it isn't rezzable. But you can just use it to soul resurgem the person back to life.

Yet you can't immolate it, you can't use the Resurrect skill on it, and you can't resurgem the person without getting a body (even the headless one). It acts *exactly* like destroying the body. It really doesn't seem like you read it at all-- or if you did, you just completely ignored it so you could come up with something that didn't really have any further meaning in the context of this discussion.

Who? The admin or the envoys?

Admin and a few who were more than happy to see it happen to Transmigrate/Rebirth but wanted lich left alone. The real killer of the idea was the Admin disapproval though, we were probably going to go ahead without Lich to begin with and then get that one later.

FYI, a construct committee has been formed of all city and commune leaders, headed by Catarin.

You know who to go to with your ideas!

I've forwarded them. *poke Kaervas*

I am getting the feeling people are not reading the thread. The suggestion was for once city-wide lich was gone and no longer in existance and no given by the crypt or by anything else and no longer a factor in balancing because it would stop existing.

I am confused as to how people keep missing this.

I think you misunderstand what I meant with my post. I was replying to a specific statement that I quoted. I've read the rest of the thread, but I wasn't replying to all of it. To expand, Malarious said that if they didn't have city wide lich, they'd want to be able to ress (assumedly souls, since you can immolate), and I was chiding him that (not so) long ago, before there were constructs, Magnagora managed without both city wide lich or any way to ress souls (or even bodies, except the full cost immolation). Implied in that was that they didn't seem to have done so badly back then.

Also implied was that I thought it was silly to expect to be given an improved copy of one of our Sacraments skills (from what people have been talking about here) to compensate for losing something that is generally thought to be better than what others have received. I think the constructs should stay away from giving new skills to new people. It seems there's enough trouble balancing existing skillsets without having to include things from constructs in the equation.

But, in general, I was just chiding Malarious, so no reason to get upset.

Since 90% of people forget what guild I am it seems like, this construct has not added lich to me, for my purposes I have not gained any skill related to experience I didnt already have. My thoughts to ress other people with it would also not effect me, if I dont lich I pheonix. I find it funny it seems like people dislike anyway to ress someone even though Celest and Seren can already ress people and have been able to for awhile.

Magnagora and Glomdoring can self ress.

Seren and Celest ress others.

If you remove self ress then the general idea is we want a way to raise others. If attacks random newb and runs off with the corpse what can do we for them? Nothing. We would like to be able to help with that.

Sure go head and say no ones taking shots at constructs, but at least try to come up with ideas other than no Mag can never be able to ress another person, even hough it does indeed seem like people forget it was suggested on the thought that Lich would be removed

Ok my pseudo rant is over I suppose. Try being constructive and remember if a new idea is brought up for the crypt it is kind of expected to mean lich for the whole city is removed (archlich is like boosting skills like the other constructs already do. But while we gained lich, seren gained omni ress, glom got rebirth, and celest really didnt get much in the way of resses, since they already have soul and corpse resses, the idea is to give a new effect to the Blackcrypt, unless we prefer to just bring the other ones "to par").

Based on discussion earlier people realize if its crappy you wont make it and if it is powerful you cant afford not to make it. To make a middle ground would seem like the goal, but how you can get a construct to be both useful without being extremely powerful is beyond me.

Well I think I am done replying to this thread, theres a 'fair' commitee in place (are all the org leaders even active...?). We will see if it turns out alright or fails largely. Instead of talking about what is to come I will just wait and see.

I still want my Trueheal

So, are you saying lich would be removed from necromancy as well? If not, then nearly half of magnagora will be able to self res, and, failing that, others would have skills to soul res them. Which is why I'm completely against the idea of giving magnagora a version of sacrifice, especially if its a better version of it.