Yet you're perfectly fine with two guilds having ecology and transmigrate within Serenwilde and their construct soulrezz? Hypocrisy, I say!

Well, two guilds having access isn't the same as a whole guild and most of another having it, but yeah, I don't really care as much because I don't fight them, and they aren't assholes to me OOC like a lot of mags are I wouldn't argue their construct is ok though, and I'd want something just as good for Celest

...


I am really, really glad you said that Acrune. Now every Celestine/Seren who were attacking the Lich Construct can read that statement and think about what they have said. Thank you for being honest, that being the only reason you care is because you fight them and they are assholes to you OOCly. Sounds like a perfect reason to balance the Lich construct.

Nah, thats why I let Serenwilde's fly, not why I am against Mag's Anyone who thinks its not total BS that all of mag gets a free trans skill has to be high as a kite.

Define "free," since it's not really free on many levels...

Free as in no lessons need to be invested, and for the individual, there is no cost besides the power, which is pretty meaningless. It costs the city, but that doesn't affect the individual much.

Having to defend it's a cost, too (though not much of one right now, admittedly).

Moral hazard problem? The vast populace (probably the lower-leveled, weaker ones) can get lich with no cost to themselves, due to dross. Then, defending (if it ever is needed) falls on to the stronger, more capable, and/or more able to be bullied into defending. In terms of resources and power, it's collectively taxing the entire city, which means each individual only has to pay a very little bit.

I guess my point is that even though it's not "free" for anybody, it's pretty close to it.

How often have you been involved in Construct defense? Defending falls on "everyone online" in my experience, because if not everyone shows up Seren rolls over us.

Hm, not often I will admit, but is construct defense really that much different from normal raid defense? There was a raid (of sorts) on Celest just yesterday, and although I was all geared up and ready to go spam paralysis, the city suddenly fell dead quiet. Not too many of these "stronger, more capable" fighters were around at the time, so I think we literally just gave up.

This has been my impression of defense in general for Celest. Maybe it's different for Glomdoring, but I honestly feel like a good chunk of Magnagora, if not a big majority, could benefit from the construct without ever lifting a finger to help defend it (especially with the random defense times thrown in). I'm not saying constructs shouldn't be like that (forcing people to constantly constantly defend will quickly decrease interest), but the benefits should not be that overwhelmingly positive.

I think you forget that it's basically impossible to remove a construct now. Unless you have a lot of time OOC dedicated to playing, planning, and being stealthy. So no one really tries to do offense, which means no defense, which really isn't a big cost anyway...

How did I forget? Look at what you quoted!

Right, so.. Xenthos asked me to post my opinion on the DarkNest a long time ago, but I'm now finally getting to it after reading every single page of posts. I realize now that I agree with Shiri in that if DarkNest gets buffed in rezz ability, than they all need to be given a look at across the board. The DarkNest, however, is powerful (just not as much as the Moon Altar or the Black Crypt, which probably bothers Gloms). Needless to say, I would say just give them more options in recalling the egg. That would be fine, in my opinion. As for other construct ideas for the other orgs:

For Seren:
The Horned Pillar of Glinshari

+ For 10p, citizens of Serenwilde are able to call upon a medicine bag, albeit with less sips than a typical medicine bag. Stag users will find that they are able to call upon a stronger variation of their medicine bag, allowing them more 'touches' from it as well as it healing more
+ Pacing for All

For Celest:
The Aquatic Altar of the Tides

+ Celestians will find themselves able to Liquidform for 10p, Aquamancers with the ability will find that its power cost is decreased. (or it is made stronger?)
+ All within Celest are given the ability of Waterbourne. (or at least Dive and Rise)

For Magnagora:

The Icon of Earthen Insanity

+ All Magnagorans are given the ability of Burrow.
+ Magnagorans will find themselves healed when breathing in poisonous gas (similar to maybe Sweetfount or Night Drink)

Anyway. Those are just ideas, and I can expect some to say they suck too much or are too overpowered. But here's to trying!

I like burrow. Not so much the liquidform/poison gas. That's a bit too powerful. Maybe instead, allow people to terrian undemensed rooms, but not break demenses?

I would love to see constructs that cause a random amount of demesne 'growth' each day/month. As in, if the construct is allowed to stand, there is a proportional increase in the amount of rooms that are flooded, say 105% per month, selected randomly from rooms adjacent to existing flooded/water rooms that are not a melded demesne. And the same with wyrd/forest/taint.

As an optional extra, the organization might get +1 level of regeneration bonus in their terrain type across the board, or perhaps alternatively level 2 ego/willpower/endurance regeneration. This part isn't really necessary though.

I'd love to see that sort of insidious growth of an organization that is something you really want to stop, but isn't going to really affect combat that much. It would also be fairly easy to undo, only costly powerwise. Just a thought.

I actually read this as the Horny Pillar of Glinshari...

I've never had the non-Crow construct egg to deal with, so I won't say anything about that.

Speaking as someone with Crow, both Glom constructs combined give me two benefits, and a potential third.

-Free crowform. Note that most people don't have storerooms, so this benefit is limited to about six people. Everyone else is paying the exact same amount for crowform.
-Quick access to a decent influence ground.

And a third, which I don't use:
-Freedom to be a griefing bastard on Prime until Avechna speaks up.

To the best of my knowledge, no one with the Crow skillset is a griefing bastard, and only a few people have the storerooms that're basically required for the egg to be useful, so the only benefit for the Blacktalon and about a quarter of the Ebonguard is access to a decent influence ground. The extra egg and lower cost to get the storeroom egg back does not affect my losses on Prime unless I'm attempting rapidfire things that're likely to get me killed, and doesn't affect my off-Prime losses at all. I know Xenthos and I agree that the griefing potential of the egg should be removed before someone decides to use it, though.

As an outsider looking in, the construct egg appears less useful as a rezz skill than that which is available to all of the orgs with the constructs up. Celest may have gained less from the construct than non-Crow people in terms of added rezz ability (Free rezz with body? Hi, we already have that.), I wouldn't say that revisiting the effect means things like the Moon Altar and Black Crypt need upgrades.

Of course, that's just my analysis of it, and there's no solution I can offer tonight.

Sure there is. Just support mine.

What is the construct group aiming for? Making all constructs as good as Mag's and Seren's, or making them all so-so like Celest's (and maybe Glom's? It looks fine to me, but I guess I'm missing something). Or somewhere in between?

I think the goal is to bring them on par with Seren's and Mag's, which is difficult without making them too overpowered.

The DarkNest doesn't need to be revamped completely, but there are certain aspects of it that could be minorly tweaked to make it solid.

EDIT: As for AngelFont, just have it work on it's own balance instead of equilibrium and it would also be solid.