yhelothar 20% vapours!

Couldn't handle the thought of smelling like a can of tuna.

As opposed to rotting corpses??

I, personally, think the argument that Celest somehow "deserves" some uberpowerful construct because it's had what some feel was a less than optimal construct in the past is complete bunk. It would mandate another construct review in the not too distant future, so that we can finally have "balanced" constructs.

As to the sip phial, on average, you have 1.8 attacks an in-game day that give vapours, is the number I keep hearing. That does not get to round up, only down. So, 1 attack every RL hour might give vapours - there's a chance for more, but it's not likely. And that's presuming you are hitting it every six seconds during that sixty second period - there is also an intial equilibrium cost on sipping phial, which is where the .8 comes from I believe.

I'm not arguing Celest does not have a good construct, though I think you're all rather exaggerating the potential of the phial ability. My personal favourite of the constructs is, strangely, the Dark Crypt. I thought it was a happy medium, and offered a lot of beneficial abilities that weren't imbalancing or narrow (okay, level 2 taint regen doesn't help viscanti, but it helps every other race who is a geomancer or participating in group combat), while being able to be used by most anyone (the mental affliction resistance is a nice bonus as well!).

And as to the note of Mag's CL not being in it... I'm not sure what's up with that - did he send a message to Estarra or Catarin? I know at least Veonira was in it originally, as the committee was formed while she was still Magnagora's CL. Karnagan did a fantastic job, however - at least, that's my opinion.

One handed knight can now do 2 venoms, 2 wound affs, AND a phial aff in a combo. Like we needed more vapors. Cure random aff and the shield thing we are used to. Bathe font sure. Benediction being free..? This right here is their verson of the DMP we got (and has been) as benediction gives quite a few nice buffs. And Honour is now a free regen at all times to most everyone.

Only problems I have with this are benediction, phial afflicting, and honour.



Bloodrage and truth would be more useful if they were usable more often. Once a month for insanity? Hows like 4-5 times? or maybe once every 2-3 days or something. Exp boost wont work on demi's. Regen wont work on Viscanti. At least font works for most everyone without having no effect for some.

Problems here are that I cant use 2 of the powers at all. I rather have a benediction thats more useful than the DMP. Bloodrage and Truth needs to be usable more often, or bloodrage needs a high exp boost that effects everyone while truth needs to be usable far more often.

Changes:
-Reduce costs for benediction maybe instead of free
-Remove vapors as an affliction option, if they must get more affs dont use the insanely powerful ones in groups
-Honour is free regen, they dont even need lvl 2 regen in taint, 2 sacraments users is that everywhere.
-Increase bloodrage to 10% and 20% in taint (make it effect demi to some extent :/)
-Make truth usable far more often maybe 5 times a month (they can choose when they use them)
-Remove the taint regen, and maybe adroitness and give us something nice and that we can actually use. Like.. lower cost to use and give lichdom, lower cost for contagion, maybe even make touch a fast skill!

But in all honesty I dont expect most of this because no one in Celest would be happy for benediction to cost anything and they all want their honour (I would use both as a bashing def). Remove vapors though at the very least please, they throw around 1.8 times an hour, but someone give figures to back that up, and in a group of 5 that 1 vapors can get you killed when you take into account celestines aleady having it on hand. I rather have lower power costs on some things than adroitness, taint regen, heck even over the mental aff resists. Give me cheaper skills and I thought coldaura was getting changed as well?

That concludes that part of the post.

@Aison: Angelfont used to 'suck' even though it was used fairly often to shield and cure, it wasnt all powerful but it wasnt useless. I dont need omni lich or something, but I want something everyone in the city could use, not that leaves out demigods or viscanti or something. I would be perfectly content to have angelfont in magnagora to an extent, more passive affs, passive curing, passive shielding. I imagine you can relate to 'wanting something useful' since you all complained about the health mana and ego curing prayers for awhile. And one last thing <3

Seriously, they seem ok but they need minor tweaks, though I imagine Celest wont bring angelfont to tweak for one reason or another, I think Magnagora will definitely want to change the blackcrypt so its worth 600 power a month.

BTW... where is the coldaura change we were expecting along with seeding others?

The poison resistances (for the two animals) should be changed to immunity to those poisons. Highjump given to either Harbingers (who already have Highjump) or druids (who already have Treelife/Treebane) seems rather lame.

I think here's how we should solve the Black Crypt:

-Halves Necromancy Crucify equilibrium time and power cost
-Nihilism symbol has a 50% chance of afflicting with aeon
-Geomancy staff has a 50% chance of afflicting with anorexia
-Ninjakari maximum ka weights doubled
-Necroscream threnody not interupted if user eats herbs, sips elixirs, etc
-Ur'guard with tracking get a +20 weapon aura

May want to increase the chances of symbol and staff afflicting too. I THINK I've covered everything.

These complaints about the crypt are pretty bizarre to me. Compare them with the - useful and worth keeping - Commune constructs. You have regeneration in taint for non-viscanti, and DMP, and mental affliction resistance - I know Thoros thinks mental affliction classes are bad but I am not buying for a moment that because there aren't any bards that can beat Thoros, mental affliction resistance is not worth it for everyone. Anything that would be useful for Thoros would probably be blatantly overpowered. All the Communes get for combat is level 1-2 regen, outdoors (or level 2 at night.) It's -meant- to be this way. The constructs aren't supposed to give offensive boosts that need to be balanced around (or overpowered) for all classes in an org. They're supposed to be optional. The closest we get to breaking away from that is the Celestian one.
Malarious, here are your numbers. The duration of the delay isn't that critical here, but it means you can't get two vial afflictions on one attack for monks and knights. So on a regular 4-second balance, someone attacking you is likely to get blackout 1/5 attacks, and you can get 15 attacks in a minute if you don't get hindered and if the delay isn't actually 6 seconds like some people are saying (I read 2 elsewhere, but eh.) That's an average of 3 blackouts per minute, one minute per hour. It's even less, and the 1.8 looks more accurate, if it's a 6-second delay.

Now plenty of concern has been raised on whether this is still too much or not, considering in groups you'll get blackout spammed from multiple people wailing on you, but if that's the case it'd probably more in line to drop the Font a bit than to raise the crypt up. The crypt is already good. Both the altars are good. They are also not so amazingly good that skills will have to be changed to accomodate for them or that an entire org will roll and die if it the constructs get taken down. If you guys want to reject yours, that's fine, but let's not go back to where these constructs were necessary and give them a large effect on PK.

Fair enough.......

Demis need their essence.. and of all the construct bonuses (that's the only one that I was excited about, the regen is nice too as I'm not viscanti) only to find out you can activate it and waste power but it does nothing? Thanks for the power loss meh.

Edit: My main problem with their balance is at the demi level. Celest demis can use every single power given by AngelFont and they're very very useful for them like everyone else whereas demis get essentially no bonus from the crypt.

My second problem which is more readily apparent is now we need a trans necro user to get lichdom. Meh.

Another problem is how demis and ascendant essence loss was changed. Perhaps some other demis/ascendants can comment but I hate the new change. I really liked how pheonix was forced, RP and mechanics wise. Death was a go to jail (havens) card. Anyhow the no essence loss on liching/transmig/etc was imbalanced for sure, but revamping it all for that is silly. A fix for liching could be add the 50k essence loss and that's it.

-Bloodrage
-Truth
-Minor DMP

But instead of the others...
-The above cruc thing (make it 5p and 4s eq an dI am happy).
-Lower cost of contagion
-Lower cost of lichdom
-Make touch faster



There ya go, a construct aimed around necro

on the Phial, I'd like to suggest a longer duration time (as long as a symbol or a staff if possible), make it wearable (I love the ideas of phials dangling from a chain tucked away in my bosom) and enchantable?*, be included in potion list to show how many sips are left, if sipping it 10 times does indeed destroy it despite it's duration.

Darkchant truth should be a once a DAY thing instead of once a month. The decrease in insanity is absolutely negligent for a once a month duration. might as wll just make it a flat % resistance to insanity if that's the case. Honestly, the people saying Crypt is fine... don't have it, and don't understand how utterly useless it is for the city as a whole.

If radiance damage is more than symbol damage, I'm all for that idea!

I think it's pretty apparent that there's a bit of a gap between the city and Commune constructs at this point, though not as much of one as there was. The regeneration on both of them is weirdly limited, and the extra effects (moonbeam/garb/coven joining) are pretty minor in comparison to the other benefits. That said, there is some 'cool' factor to being able to join a coven and the Glom one does now allow the joining of Penumbra rituals so it isn't truly bad... but for those of you complaining about the Crypt, really, what you've got is better than the Communes.

Also, I agree with Ixion on the whole Demigod RP thing being thrown out of balance by this change-- however, at the same time, it was one that was pretty important balance-wise. Maybe it would be possible to make something other than a corpse that is the physical "remains" of a Demigod/Ascendant and can be manipulated/immolated (and change the soul to something as well)... but that's likely too much work.

However, with the flat 50k loss for both Demigods and Ascendants, I think that the 500,000 reincarnate cost should be reviewed. As of now, there is no difference between an Ascendant and a Demigod dying except that an Ascendant's soul is flung immediately to the Domoths and sits there for 15 minutes or chooses to burn 500,000 essence. A Demigod can run around as a soul for a bit, and then choose to phoenix (at a much-reduced cost).

Just a couple of comments. Ragging on Karnagan who spent a lot of time these past couple of months working on construct design is unfair and unwarranted. That this review was going on was pretty common knowledge and I know he shared the details of the crypt with at least one of the Mag city clans while it was in development and a good portion of his ideas came from other Magnagorans. If the ideas you were contributing didn't make it into his suggestins, well, I can understand being frustrated I suppose. If, however, you didn't actually suggest anything then you cannot expect him to read your mind.

When the committee was formed, Veonira was the Magnagora leader and she was put on. None of the other orgs that had leader changes during this process got their new leaders placed on though I suppose if those leaders had asked Estarra might have considered it.

The 10p cost to Resurgem anyone who isn't a Moon or Stag follower is a bit steep and seriously screws up times when mass Resurgems are required. Rare they might be, but they do happen! I would still support there being a power cost, but perhaps a reduction wouldn't hurt? If Resurgem can now be used on non-Seren (haven't had an opportunity to test) that should definitely be left at 10 power, since I personally wouldn't waste that for a someone from either city or Glomdoring. Perhaps the cost is reduced only when the person is a Moonchilde? Just being able to pass the Coven over to another Moon follower with Resurgem won't always be the option, but this way you have the possibility of being able to perform multiple Resurgems for Serens without Totems in a brief span of time but still requiring a power cost that will build up rather quickly.

Another thing that irks me is that only Moon/Night users should be able to form covens, join people, or be appointed to take over. Yeah, it's a bit weird that now anyone who is a Moonchilde/Nightwraith can be added to a coven, but actually being able to create a coven and control who goes into it and such needs to be left strictly in the hands of those who can actually use the abilities. From an in-character perspective, a lot of Moondancers find it insulting and it doesn't make any sense, either on an in-character basis or an out-of-character one.

I don't mind the only-Totems-users can form covens bit. Being able to join anyone in a coven is sweet, though, and IMO the best part of the changes.

Edit: And yes, please either lower the power cost or make the power cost come out of the resurgem-ee's power (provided it's a Seren, of course).

Yeah, I wasn't saying to change that part, just not allowing them to lead covens. It should remain restricted to Moon/Night followers. If it came off differently because my explanation was confusing, I blame the fact that my mind tends to tie the things I type into overly complicated knots when I'm sleepy and not paying attention.

I need caffeine.

Edit: Oh, and I'd totally be open to making the person being hit with Resurgem the one forced to fork over the power. Being a wiccan costs enough power as it is.

This already seems to be true from my testing earlier (it looked kind of buggy though, but I'm not sure which way the correct version will turn out). If it weren't, though, it would still make sense - yes, both IC and OOC. OOC, obviously, you get the coven power. Not difficult. IC, these people have Mother Moon's blessing. They're Moonchildren. Allowing other Seren to participate in rituals that save other Seren's lives and benefit from Mother Moon's wisdom is not out of order. If you must have your own guild rituals with covens without non-Moon users you can just fail to invite other people.

Frankly, I'm stunned people (not you, just things I've heard) are complaining about the changes to covens as if the wiccan guilds are suddenly going to be lacking for identity compared to all the other guilds. Considering the two guilds are some of the two MOST rich in character and entwined with relevant parts of the game world, you'd think they wouldn't object to letting people with a spirits' blessing participate in one of the less relevant parts of their identity. It's not like they're summoning Fae or anything. And I don't remember any suggestions that replaced the Lunar Altar with some random construct unconnected to Moon.
If they want, I'll trade them my most flavourful and RP-connected skill, which is probably snorting at people like a bull. Or maybe the one where I shout at dreamweavers and they die, that's a good one.

Also, I agree with Ixion and Xenthos that the demigod/ascendant setup is weird but I can't quite decide whether it's weird enough to be worth complaining about. On the one hand, demigods now leave bodies instead of phoenixing, and can be resurrected. On the other hand, it corrects an imbalance between the tainted orgs and the non-tainted orgs in that they could use their rezz skills and we couldn't. Ascendants are still worse than demis as far as dying is concerned, plus we now lose another minor bit of xp at the start if we choose the sitting option, but...eh.

My main concern is still resurgem not being usable in PK (where every org except ours can and will eat bodies lightning fast.) We're still the only ones affected by it, too.

EDIT: That said, it probably wouldn't bother anyone to have to lose the power in place of the resurgemmer, but I would not be sure the admin want to do that since they would have to soend time getting it to subtract it from reserves when someone is on 0 power due to vitae or something.