People don't like brutal honesty. That's fine with me.

The fact of the matter is when you look at the full picture, Celest has come out ahead. Mag has taken a huge whack to lich while Celest has been tweaked. Sure, the xp loss issue relating specifically to constructs has been balanced. I concede that point. However, there are other skills that come into play concerning xp loss, though just not as directly as lich. Trueheal is one of them. It's just unfortunate that so many people are in favor of balance only when it's not their side taking the beating, and are content to just flame people that are willing to give and take. Oh well. Such is forums.

alright,so I'm lazy, and don't feel like perusing the whole article for this one question:
Will Lichseed be able to be given to ANYONE, even those in Celest?

maybe yes, maybe no.

read the first 3 pages.

Yes.

No.

(just to support the maybe yes maybe no comment)

While it is true that Magnagora's construct is being the most changed NOW, Celest's construct still has the largest change of all the constructs so far. It's entire purpose was completely scrapped and redone the first time because it was considered too powerful. The Black Crypt is in the same boat, and they were both rightfully changed, in my opinion. The players who were thinking of the Angel Font's original powers didn't even consider suggesting the powers that the Angel Font was given to begin with.

So, yes, the Black Crypt is having the largest change at this time, it is only being brought down to a level more fair to the rest of the players of the game and it is in no way slanted against Magnagora, as each construct is being changed, and other constructs which were considered too powerful have already been changed.

To be fair though, while Lich is nice (for a Geomancer at any rate, as it's my sole method of not-pray-dying when I'm not with a huge group) it's really kinda meh save for being an ubervitae that gives bonuses half the time and penalties the other half. The penalty is teh suck, though admittedly nowhere near as bad as it was prior to the stat point re-adjustment. Conversely, the bonus isn't as huge as it was, but hey, I'll take what I can get. For the record, reforming REALLY sucks.... All in all, I don't think Lich ever needed messing with, it's the rest of the Necromancy skillset.

Quick edit: I really hope you can't force lichseed on people, even with a delay, because god knows how screwy group vs group combat gets. SPAM ATTACK OMG I HOPE I DONT DIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeee ohey I'm dead. Wait... I'm a LICH NOW!? WHAT THE SUPERNALS DAMNED SCREWPIE!?

Constructless lich is also being changed. Consructless trueheal was not.

I like this idea, in fact I envoyed this idea 2 years ago and was told no! Anyways... I have to ask, why does Glomdoring get the total immunities and Serenwilde the weak buffs? Poison immunity, even if on poisons not used all the time is not a small thing. Add to that an ecologist can also be a poisonist and this gives them total immunity to two poisons.

To clarify, I would rather have an immunity than a buff any day of the week. Cause I can get a buff anytime. I can't get an immunity.

Trueheal and lich aren't comparable.

But wasn't that because all death-lessening effects were changed, and not some singling out of lich?

If trueheal were a death-lessening ability, it would have been changed as well (and I mean in a direct sense. Yes it keeps people alive, but so do health potions.)

I agree with his sentiment. Those immunities are superior to a minor (weighted) buff or some minor resistance increase (considering dmp)

pft, why not, because Trueheal can't be screwed with by eye sigils?

I have one main concern with these changes: Lichdom and darkrebirth have fairly important buffing functions outside of their main function of experience loss prevention. If they are changed to cost experience, it would require a sacrifice of experience or essence just to raise your defenses (actually, I'm not sure if the darkrebirth defense ever disappears; disregard darkrebirth if it does). Could we have a way of obtaining the advantages associated with these skills (undeath and the spirit thing) without actually having to die?

You're right. Immunities are very very strong. Way too easy to get stat buffs.

Edit: Um, ninja'ed.

Maybe a special lich room in magnagora that makes you a lich without killing you in the mechanical sense? Like, some ceremony where you drink some sort of tainted koolaid?

A simpler solution would be to have implanting lichseed automatically give you the status of lich. If you die, you retain your lich status upon reformation, but lose the lichseed defense: you will need to regain the lichseed somehow.

Now that lichseed FINALLY has an experience cost, any number of considerations can be made in how to treat it.

- The large equilibrium disruption upon reformation.
- If a prismatic barrier will be granted upon resurrection, to keep the lich safe.
- If the lich will simply reform at the Megalith of Doom upon resurrection, as they would with an ordinary conglutination.
- If the lich will continue to lose all active power after reforming. (EDIT: While conglutination takes all power on the prompt, it does not require power to maintain. Vitae takes 10 power to activate, but does not cause a loss of power upon activation.)

Why would this even be on the table? It happens with all deaths excepting organizational conglutination. Even normal conglut loses power.

Feel free to make suggestions that make sense for the animal familiar (i.e., for the Glomdoring poison immunities, those creatures actually give those poisons; would rather not just tack poisons onto owls and foxes just for the heck of it).

Doh, made my edit while you were posting, Xenthos. Yes, conglut costs an individual 10 power, or whatever they have on the prompt: but establishing lichseed already costs this. 20 power total, including the initial defense and the power taken upon death, seems like a large price to pay for a conglutination death and the bonuses from lichseed under the new system.