It sounds to me though that the denizens have a better end of the deal.

Illithoid aren't immortal because they are newer, they are immortal because the Excoroperditio within them is purer and more concentrated within any one illithoid than the Immanidivinus within any one member of the other shard races. Just as it rebuilt the physical forms of the Soulless when they were destroyed, so too does the Excoroperditio restore the bodies of the Illithoid. Personally, I think this theory provides a much more fulfilling and believable reason for why NPC Illithoids suddenly come back to life, time and time again after being killed, rather than simply 'They were re-woven'. If only other NPCs could have such a clean explanation for THEIR 'immortality'.

As for why player Illithoids have to pray for salvation and whatnot, it's one of the drawbacks to entering the Portal and becoming Fate-touched. Now that you're bound to the Tapestry of Life, you gain the power of the Fates, but you're also subject to their rules.



Yes, this is pretty much my basis for the theory of Illithoid immortality. Like I said above, the Excoroperditio restores the bodies of the Illithoid, just like it did for the greater Soulless when they were destroyed during the Elder Wars.



Well, if it makes you feel better, you can still think of Illithoids as shards. The difference is, they hold a shard of the Excoroperditio within them, rather than a shard of the Immanidivinus.



Actually, that's the basis for Seretenin's origin. He was originally one of the illithoids sent up to Prime during the Undervault opening event. His mortal shell was destroyed in the attack on the wax pyramid by Celest and Seren, and his worm escaped into the Estengare River where it was brought to the Inner Sea, crossed to the Toronada plains, found his way to Mount Avechna, was led to the Portal by its energies, and entered it. The full story's been published, check it out in the library some time if you want.

I would just like to point out, that from what I can tell, from an IC perspective, the admin, coders, builders etc, are actually the fates.

When your ooc mind thinks admin or coders or code changes, your IC charachter should be thinking "Fates", not some bizzare amnesia like they would in other games where the OOC stuff is strictly OOC.

So anything you want to chalk up to OOC laziness or whatever, you also need to chalk it up to Fates not wanting it that way, and should theoretically come up with a good reason why the fates wanted it that way.

Plus they never lose experience when they die.

On the other hand, no matter how many times they kill you, they never go up in level.

Eh, I'm still not buying it.

The 'official' reason for other NPCs (non-named) returning is that "areas have many more denizens than just the ones you see, and over time more of them 'come out'." Like, there are thousands of ants in the mountain, but you only see 30 at a time, and then the rest go into hiding or something (or hatch more baby-ants).

Then what about the named NPCs? Eh? EH?!

I think that's already been debated quite a bit (either in this thread or its partner)-- but the fact that the non-Illithoid named ones DO come back seems to imply, to me at least, that the Illithoid ones return the same way (not that they somehow have this special death-immunity). Especially since the PC versions don't have anything of the sort, and if their thread is cut, they'll be dead (see: SUICIDE;AGREE). I don't think there's any way you can actually claim it to be canon on an OOC level.

On an IC one, sure, claim it all you want. That's part of roleplay.

A long line of Juniors! RandomnamedNPC, RandomnamedNPC Jr, RandomnamedNPC the Third, RandomnamedNPC the Fourth and so on and so on. The name is passed down from one generation to the next in a long line reaching back to the very first shards!

Or maybe, they can, and you just miss it.
Implement denizen leveling system? Ohnoes.




Portal. They are important enough to come back?

It would be kind of funny to see someone kill a mob and have the level losing god-moding message pop up. You know, the "You see Randombasher reach over and console a random aslaran mob as he drops to the level of somerandomlevel." Or whatever that message says.

The Illithoid prison should also have their own city aether.
"I just got ganked by Nejii again."


But ya anyways, its hard to make a MUD absolutely perfect. Obviously there will be little things like mob respawn, that stuff you shouldn't even think about, because even if there was a valid reason for them to come back it would be ridiculous and stupid. The universal one used that works fine is they just slowly come out from places you couldn't get to before, hiding, etc.

The named ones, probably came out of the portal.

Just imagine what those poor bugs would be buzzing about all the time...

I think it'd be nearly non-stop screams.

Thinking along the same lines, appropriately renaming each important NPC when they respawn would probably end the above debate. Think of them as their successors, or something. Not exactly the best solution, especially because people get off to killing important mobs over and over again, but I'd say it's better than trying to think up (and argue about) an RP excuse as to why they always come back.

Ahah, there's our problem. And I think it's the same problem a lot of other people are having in accepting my theory. You seem to think that this is a form of immortality on a PHYSICAL level. It's not. It's immortality on a SUPERPHYSICAL level. It's based on several sub-theories.

1) Aetheric manifestations of the power of Dynara and Magnora exist, the Immanidivinus and the Excoroperditio.

2) As the Immanidivinus is the source of the power of all creation, such is the Excoroperditio the source of the power of all destruction.

3) The Elder Gods are beings borne of the Immanidivinus, and draw from its power.

4) The Soulless Gods are beings borne of the Excoroperditio, and draw from its power.

5) Shards of a splintered Elder or Soulless God hold fragments of the essence of their progenitor within.

This establishes that Illithoids hold a fragment of the power of the Excoroperditio within them, and if the Excoroperditio is the source of all destruction, how can you destroy destruction itself?

The problem with accepting this theory is simple. It's because all the rules of creation and life that have already been established have to be THROWN OUT THE WINDOW when dealing with Illithoids. Forget the notion of creation, forget the notion of mortality, and open a new chapter.

It's been established as canon that the Soulless have taken so much of the fabric and power of creation into themselves that to destroy them would be akin to destroying creation itself. Illith specifically, has had this designation given to Her by Estarra herself, after Estarra tried to destroy her during the Verses of Magnora event, when she began draining the Taint from Magnagora. And yes, that big snake thing WAS a manifestation of Illith, a physical body composed of the lesser beings of Her creche and containing Her mind and will, this is established as canon in the Memories of the Black Heart. Now that Illith has splintered, who's to say that each and every Illithoid is now just as tied to the fabric of creation as she was, only to a lesser degree?

As fragments of the Immanidivinus, and thus, fragments of creation, it makes sense that Elder mortals are subject to destruction. However, with the Illithoid being fragments of the Excoroperditio, they cannot be subject to destruction, as they already are a physical manifestation of it. That's why the Soulless were never able to be destroyed during the Elder Wars, or the Vernal Wars, or now. To do so would go against the very nature of existance.

So, in summary, Illithoids are manifestations of the power of destruction, and you can't destroy destruction, whereas you can very well destroy a fragment of creation (other mortals). That's why they're immortal. They're not invulnerable though, and you can crush and stab and smash and zap them silly all you want, just like the Gods did during the Elder Wars. They'll die, but they'll be back.

No. I'm not talking about the physical level specifically, I'm talking about the whole package. I specifically mentioned threads (which is what allows people to keep coming back, that's far beyond the physical), and SUICIDE;AGREE.

At the same time, there's something more to the Illithoid race than just the hunger of the Soulless. Sure, they've become bound to this world-- but I would posit that in that binding, some of them has also been changed to some extent (though it isn't truly noticeable to the Big Bad Soulless selves, when they splinter... something new, non-Soulless is created). There is much of the world in them-- the StarForm, the ability to breed with humans (despite your distaste for it), and the fact that each of them has a thread, a place in this world, that can be cut (destroying them forever).

Sure, they're not a great culture, but they *are* a culture. They live, die, eat each other at times (by the way, if the Illithoid's essence is consumed by another, does your theory state that they will reform inside that other's body?)... they do have a lot of their Soulless heritage, but that is not all that they have.

Further, we already know that individual shards are not the same as the Elder, and don't have even a fragment of their power or ability. They are unique individuals. Just because the Elder has one power does not mean that their shards do, even if they're "only a few, respectively". (I see a lot more illithoids than mugwumps, personally)

Daath Sequence FTW.

You destroy desctruction with knowledge of creation.

It is a kabalistic principle

Makes perfect sense to me.

Nope, try again. (Book of Orlachmar)

Atropos