Xenthos: Please fully explain your idea here.

Its awesome, and really needs to seriously be looked at and done.

The idea that a warrior has to buy 7500 (extra 1200 if you want bleeding runes) credits worth of runes to max out his well balanced combat, while a non warrior has, maybe 3000 (Can't look it up right now, since those numbers arn't on the website) is really just too much.

Artifact runes should apply to all weapons in hand that have less than 463 stats, as an aura... it really should.

My main suggestion is to multiple the current price of warrior artifacts by 1.5 and make them runes that you attach to jewlery, and have them apply the same way "dark shadows" applies, but, also only have it apply if the stats are under 463 or whatever it needs to be.

But I think Xenthos had the idea more thought out... so Xenthos, please post it in its entirety.

You could always cut and paste it yourself from one of the others where I discussed it-- I can't right now, I'm doing a lab at the moment.

I'd have a hard time finding it. Each of the places I know of, the exact text is incomplete about the idea.

So, you're saying that someone would need only one +15 stat rune on a piece of jewelry to get the effect on both weapons wielded? Would I be refunded the full cost of my other, now unnecessary, rune? Maybe we could get two and get a +30 to all stats!

well, I would wait for xenthos to explain it. however since the price of runes would go up by X1.5 I don't think a refund would be necessary.

edit: i.e. a 900 credit rune would now cost 2250 (or I guess 2000 since they don't price runes like that)

Yes, it would obviously have to be refunded-- and no, it just as obviously wouldn't stack (as you're quite aware with your ). The refund part is why it will never happen, but it's also why warriors will never, ever be balanced. The artifacts themselves are the biggest issue with the Warrior class, and it's because they're so expensive and make a huge difference between someone who has all of them versus someone who has none.

If you raise the price of the artifacts, you don't have to refund anybody, since those people would have gotten those artifacts at a discount.

Eh, that's true-- trade in the extra for pretty much what you paid for them, if you want to. Not a bad solution.

Would definitely make me come back. :thumbsup:

I thought this was about runes to improve forging, and I had my whole idea of the Great Rune of Non-craptastic weapon forging all lined up.

Would we still be able to get weapons customized to make them not only cooler but also reset and non-decay? That's a big reason people buy runes in the first place, to keep the weapons they worked so hard to make (or have made).

I would assume so.

hmm, ok new idea. Reduce the price of the new runes to 1.2X and add a new rune that you stick on individual weapons, that costs 25 credits, that allows the aura to apply to the weapon. (this way you don't have to do the 463 check everytime someone wields a weapon)

So you buy the weapon rune of Aura EventListen.

Then you buy the great rune of Aura DispatchEvent!

(Xenthos, post your idea before I go off on silly tangets and rune the whole thing!)

Okay, the idea is, generally, as follows:
Warrior offensive artifacts should function like other offensive artifacts (the +% damage magical runes, etc). That is, they should attach to jewellery and provide their effect to your attacks (just as the +% magic damage rune does, for example).
1) This effect will be applied to all weapons that you are wielding, as long as they are at 463 or below total weapon stats.
2) Since each rune will have a greater range of effect (more than a single weapon), they should:
2a. Cost more (elemental runes should cost twice as much at least, for example, and only one can be active at a time).
2b. Have a lower overall effect. For example, no more +15/+15/+15-- the max might be the +10/+10/+10 instead.
3) Modify the bleeding rune as follows: 75cr rune for 1h weapons and 150cr rune for 2h weapons (the 2h one should have twice the bleeding effect). Thus, it's the same as the Great Rune of Gripping-- 150cr total to rune your weapon(s) with a relatively minor bonus.
4) These effects should NOT be stackable with a second rune of the same type.

Actual cost/benefit proposals:
Proposal 1:
Stat Runes:
- Cosmic Knight: +5/+5/+5, cost: 300 credits.
- Vernal Knight: +10/+10/+10, cost: 600 credits.

Wounding Runes:
- Cosmic Champion: +5% wounding, 300 credits.
- Vernal Champion: +10% wounding, 600 credits.

Elemental Runes:
* Each of these retains its current 1/3 damage type conversion, but you must TOUCH the item this seal is attached to to activate its aura. If you have another activated, it is disabled.
* Minimum of 700 credits, but I'm more tempted to say 1000.

Thus, it's 1200 credits for the +10/+10/+10 and the +10% wounding, which is useful, at a comparable price to the magic rune (and could perhaps be raised by 200-400 on the wounding runes). The magic rune is 1600 credits for +20%, 800 for +15%, and 400 for +10%. It brings the Warrior class as a whole much closer together on *all* fronts, from wounding to damage, as well as making it possible to aim for it credits-wise. Then add on another 700-1000, and you still have your top-end warriors dishing out 1900-2200 credits for a full set of runes, plus the 150 for making the weapon itself an artifact.
Warriors: 2350 total for the full offensive boost.
Other classes: +20% magic rune (1800), gripping rune (150), shield rune (350): 2300 total. (Shield rune isn't necessarily offensive, but since there's just one weapon for most of these classes and having a shield rune frees up the other hand for tomes/etc, I'm counting it)


Proposal 2:
Stat Runes:
- Puissant Knight: +5/+5/+5, cost: 300 credits.
- Cosmic Knight: +10/+10/+10, cost: 600 credits.
- Vernal Knight: +15/+15/+15, cost: 900 credits.

Wounding Runes:
- Puissant Champion: +5% wounding, 300 credits.
- Cosmic Champion: +10% wounding, 600 credits.
- Vernal Champion: +15% wounding, 900 credits.

Elemental Runes:
* Each of these now converts 1/6 of the damage you do to its damage type, but you may have up to two active at once. You must TOUCH the item this seal is attached to to activate its aura. You may TOUCH an activated item to deactivate it, allowing you to use another.
* 400 credits.

I don't like this route as much as it still keeps the maximum difference, but the credit total required DOES drop significantly, so it's not a complete bust.
Total: 3050 credits (versus the 2300). Still, this is the only way I can see keeping all three levels of runes, and perhaps it's not quite as much of a hit to the Administration's potential income... and the 1200 credits for the +10/+10/+10 / +10% is still possible, and not out of reach for the normal person.

Edit: Fixed the elemental rune price on the second one. I forgot to do so. Whoops!

Hmm, I dissagree with the prices a bit, I think they should be slightly higher (maybe 150-200 credits an item) for two reasons.

1. No need for refunds. (current prices would require refunds)
2. I get the feeling that there is some "design" behind warriors equipment costing more in general. (i.e. I think they overall want less warriors than magic people, same as with the way races are deigned)

With the way the guilds are set up, though, that's already the case. Also, all of the items are already higher than their current price by a fair bit except the maximum one in each category (which is the same). 150->300, 400->600. That's not a bad tradein value. I suppose the top ones could go from 900->1000 (which would raise the total by 200 for each). 350->(700-1000) for the elemental runes is a HUGE amount of credits in return, which I personally feel covers the +15/+15/+15 and +15% runes loss.

Edit: Ah, I see. In the first one I kept the names of the higher ones even though I bumped things down a bit (that was just a personal preference, 'cause I liked those names better and I had to drop one). Those would still be equivalent to the current +5 set, +10 set in terms of tradein value, and the +15s would need to get the full refund.

while we are at it, we should change the name from Vernal knight to ascendant Warrior


Ok I like proposal one much better: with the following modifications.

Rune of Bleeding:
-75 cr per hand per weapon.

Stat Runes:
- Vernal Warrior: +5/+5/+5, cost: 350 credits.
- Ascendant Warrior: +10/+10/+10, cost: 800 credits.

Wounding Runes:
- Vernal Champion: +5% wounding, 350 credits.
- Ascendant Champion: +10% wounding, 800 credits.

Elemental Runes:
* Each of these retains its current 1/3 damage type conversion, but you must TOUCH the item this seal is attached to to activate its aura. If you have another activated, it is disabled.
* 1000 credits.

Don't be so sure. When mine (and other peoples') damage weapons got nerfed, we got a refund on the runes on them, largely because of a balance issue.

I love this idea, and think that 1.5x the current cost is a good going rate. Make the runes automatically split their benefits between weapons if the person is wielding more than one, but make the base stat runes +10, +20, and +30.

I've spent 2,500 credits for the runes on a single pair of weapons: level three stat runes (+15) and elemental runes. I don't even yet have the bleeding or wounding runes on this particular pair.

I really dislike proposal one removing the higher runes. I feel that the level three add the significant bonus to my weapons that I need to make them feel like true artifacts, and still the boost in damage is relatively small compared to the magic users. If you get rid of the level three runes, you need to remove the 463 stat cap (or raise it), but that invalidates most runed weapons out there then.

Both proposals have me a little confused on how much it would cost me to do what I'm trying to do (or have done already) with my weapons.

My proposal would be a hybrid of number two and the way things are currently: the stat and wounding runes would work for any set of weapons (different boosts for one two-handed versus two one-handed, so only one of each rune is ever needed by any warrior specialization), and the other runes would still be attached to specific weapons to modify the damage type or add bleeding.

Eh, the elemental ones could stay as they are, and act kind of like the gripping/shield Great Runes. That's not a huge issue, to me at least.

But yes, the point is "Buy one stat and one wounding artifact, instead of up to 6-- two for each weapon set".

The +15 set would be 900 credits, then tack on 150 for non-decay bleedrunes or (I suppose) 700 for two elementals (using your idea). 1600 credits total for what you've done, instead of 2500. It would also leave you with an extra 900 credits worth of artifacts (the second stat rune), which gives you a refund of 600 as well as still having all the same stuff on your weapons (and not having to buy more for future weapon sets). I think the payment part is relatively clear, at least, and helps make the credit cost of a warrior FAR closer to the base cost of other classes. Yes, there's a small loss here for the level 3 artifact, but personally... that's fine for the benefit you're getting (the ability for a wounding artifact at just a few credits more that affects both your weapons). The other fix for it would be raising the price of the level 3 a bit more (as per Daganev's idea).

As to the stat bit: You're right in that lowering the +stats to ten instead of fifteen will make them less effective and give less of a boost. My only real concern is: Should there have been that big a boost to begin with? The runes gift a weapon with a significant advantage, but at least it's a lot easier for new warriors to attain this level (and thus it can be much more readily balanced around this end, just as magic damage is occasionally balanced around the +20% magic damage rune).

We can't do that very well now, with the current state, because actually attaining that number of runes is something that the general Warrior population will never do-- so balancing for the very few who do completely messes up the rest of the class.

If a change like this was put into place, I really just wouldn't want to lose credits in the transition. When I remove the runes from my weapons, I lose the runes and gain the 2/3 trade-in value. I already lost 600 credits moving the stat runes from one pair of weapons to another.

I don't mind the cost of the bleeding artifact as it is currently, but it could stand to do a little more than it does. If the cost is lowered, I'd expect to be reimbursed for that, too.

Unfortunately, the issues this proposal would raise just seem like more than any admin would really want to deal with practically.