Malicia2008-04-13 17:21:51
@Nariah- whatever time you put in, you can triple it for Celest. It started with an 8-12 hour beacon lighting fest. Some admin finally took pity on us and lit four of them. Any fights in Muud were against highly neurotic/sociopathic defenders. 5000 power easily gained, for Mag's part.
Unknown2008-04-13 17:24:52
QUOTE(Estarra @ Apr 13 2008, 01:07 PM) 501707
Regarding Malicia's concerns over the event, I'd like to point out a couple of things.
The beacon quest is now a permanent quest, just as the necromentate quest is now permanent. Along with the Serenwilde ancestral quest and the Glomdoring summoning night quest, all four quests are now open to give out prophesies (before only Serenwilde was active). This was our first chance to look at the city quests in a long time and we did truncate it in the end (if anyone noticed) and may make revisions in the future. But now all major org quests are active and permanent for whoever wishes to do the honour quests.
As for the event itself, instead of just a snuggly Celest event, we decided to go with something deeper, allowing multiple outcomes. Celest had the opportunity to stop the communes from compromising Raziela. In hindsight, maybe the opportunity should have been greater but from my observations I don't know if it would have mattered. Also, there was a race with Magnagora to free Raziela before they were able to fully brand her. That didn't happen so of course you only saw what happened when Magnagora did suceed.
As with all events, of course hindsight always shows what could have been done better or different. But I think a lot of players did enjoy the interactions with the Supernals and being involved in the story. I think those who didn't enjoy it were more the metagamers who probably (understandably) wanted a more definitive gameplan on what they needed to do to "win".
But, nonetheless, I think this event seeds more interesting future developments, introduces a new god, and the experience helps us design new future events.
(Oh, and Raziela will return shortly if she hasn't already.)
The beacon quest is now a permanent quest, just as the necromentate quest is now permanent. Along with the Serenwilde ancestral quest and the Glomdoring summoning night quest, all four quests are now open to give out prophesies (before only Serenwilde was active). This was our first chance to look at the city quests in a long time and we did truncate it in the end (if anyone noticed) and may make revisions in the future. But now all major org quests are active and permanent for whoever wishes to do the honour quests.
As for the event itself, instead of just a snuggly Celest event, we decided to go with something deeper, allowing multiple outcomes. Celest had the opportunity to stop the communes from compromising Raziela. In hindsight, maybe the opportunity should have been greater but from my observations I don't know if it would have mattered. Also, there was a race with Magnagora to free Raziela before they were able to fully brand her. That didn't happen so of course you only saw what happened when Magnagora did suceed.
As with all events, of course hindsight always shows what could have been done better or different. But I think a lot of players did enjoy the interactions with the Supernals and being involved in the story. I think those who didn't enjoy it were more the metagamers who probably (understandably) wanted a more definitive gameplan on what they needed to do to "win".
But, nonetheless, I think this event seeds more interesting future developments, introduces a new god, and the experience helps us design new future events.
(Oh, and Raziela will return shortly if she hasn't already.)
Regarding the interaction with the Supernals, I'd like to say as someone who plays a Celestine that I'm at a very hard point in Talkan's life. I don't know how to respond or react to the way the Supernals did. There has been no historical evidence, nor through their teachings that would justify the way they reacted. Each Supernal (save Methrenton) was speaking over the Celestines guild channel about how we should just give up and chalk Raziela up as lost.
Seriously, this does not fit any notion of what the Supernals stand for. Never has there been any hint of anything besides Unity from the Supernals. I don't know how this was allowed or tolerated and certainly leaves us as Celestines at an impass.
We can not simply disregard these statements, yet should we act accordingly, we would lose almost complete faith and trust in the Supernals as characters. I hope that either some VERY solid reasoning is developed that explains this, or that it never happens again. It's completely anathema to the entire Supernal doctrine. It'd be as if the Demon Lords suddenly said that hugging is the true power of the Taint.
So, please, in the future think of how the characters who must follow these NPCs must react from their actions. I really don't know how to move forward from this point from a roleplay perspective.
Malicia2008-04-13 17:25:50
QUOTE(Acrune @ Apr 13 2008, 12:17 PM) 501712
I disagree. I find it hard to enjoy being forced to do a long repetitive quest, being stuck in Muud, fighting 3 orgs while highly neurotic/sociopathic, and having relations ruined with all your allies enjoyable. Maybe thats just me?
No, you're a metagamer Acrune. Shh.
@Estarra: I really do not see how forcing an organization to stay put in an area where they build constant insanity and then expecting them to be able to function against other organizations in combat is fair or logical. If this is what is expected in future events, I just won't participate.
This event was a combination of tedious, mindless gathering (be it squid for pearls or essence for Raziela); dealing with massive amounts of insanity; etc. This event, like so many others, allowed for “bad consequences†for Celest (see: Soulforge, Broadcast Center, etc), but provided us with no means to strike back.
This theme wherein certain organizations have viable alternatives and certain organizations do not is old - it’s boring. If you honestly think Celest had a “viable†means to do anything when half of our commands were failing from insanity for the hours we had to “guard†Raziela - you really need to create a mortal character and give it a try in the future.
That being said, the mechanics of the event and the roleplay behind them are entirely separate matters. I’m sure people would enjoy being involved with the Supernals and a story where Celest was utterly destroyed, the Supernals were permanently slain, and the Pool of Stars was void of power.
Unknown2008-04-13 17:32:13
I have to agree with Malicia and Talkan. I don't get why Magnagora got 5000 power, when nothing bad happened on their part? What would of been fair is if Muud attacked both Gorgulu and Raz, and forced them inside. make celestians/mag race to free their beings while Glom/Seren steps in. brands them both and gets out. As a celestian, several quests have transpired that have not really helped celest at all. When Isune died, we got little. Even now, mag got 5000 power, we got raz no longer accepting fae, and what did celest get?
Unknown2008-04-13 17:34:02
A fifth god.
Unknown2008-04-13 17:38:54
QUOTE(Estarra @ Apr 13 2008, 12:07 PM) 501707
As for the event itself, instead of just a snuggly Celest event, we decided to go with something deeper, allowing multiple outcomes. Celest had the opportunity to stop the communes from compromising Raziela. In hindsight, maybe the opportunity should have been greater but from my observations I don't know if it would have mattered. Also, there was a race with Magnagora to free Raziela before they were able to fully brand her. That didn't happen so of course you only saw what happened when Magnagora did succeed.
This might have been part of the problem. We're pretty used to events having a set destination in mind, and I suspect at least a few people in Celest might have been anticipating this. So it's probably more appropriate to say that if anything in the realm of metagaming was occurring, then it was insofar as "Wow, this is really difficult and frustrating, and seems to be set up for us to fail. We're probably meant to "lose" big this time.", thus resulting in some people not putting forth quite as much effort or hurrying to accomplish this or that to quite the same degree that they might have otherwise.
Xenthos2008-04-13 17:38:58
QUOTE(Malicia @ Apr 13 2008, 01:25 PM) 501718
No, you're a metagamer Acrune. Shh.
@Estarra: I really do not see how forcing an organization to stay put in an area where they build constant insanity and then expecting them to be able to function against other organizations in combat is fair or logical. If this is what is expected in future events, I just won't participate.
This event was a combination of tedious, mindless gathering (be it squid for pearls or essence for Raziela); dealing with massive amounts of insanity; etc. This event, like so many others, allowed for “bad consequences†for Celest (see: Soulforge, Broadcast Center, etc), but provided us with no means to strike back.
This theme wherein certain organizations have viable alternatives and certain organizations do not is old - it’s boring. If you honestly think Celest had a “viable†means to do anything when half of our commands were failing from insanity for the hours we had to “guard†Raziela - you really need to create a mortal character and give it a try in the future.
That being said, the mechanics of the event and the roleplay behind them are entirely separate matters. I’m sure people would enjoy being involved with the Supernals and a story where Celest was utterly destroyed, the Supernals were permanently slain, and the Pool of Stars was void of power.
@Estarra: I really do not see how forcing an organization to stay put in an area where they build constant insanity and then expecting them to be able to function against other organizations in combat is fair or logical. If this is what is expected in future events, I just won't participate.
This event was a combination of tedious, mindless gathering (be it squid for pearls or essence for Raziela); dealing with massive amounts of insanity; etc. This event, like so many others, allowed for “bad consequences†for Celest (see: Soulforge, Broadcast Center, etc), but provided us with no means to strike back.
This theme wherein certain organizations have viable alternatives and certain organizations do not is old - it’s boring. If you honestly think Celest had a “viable†means to do anything when half of our commands were failing from insanity for the hours we had to “guard†Raziela - you really need to create a mortal character and give it a try in the future.
That being said, the mechanics of the event and the roleplay behind them are entirely separate matters. I’m sure people would enjoy being involved with the Supernals and a story where Celest was utterly destroyed, the Supernals were permanently slain, and the Pool of Stars was void of power.
Don't forget having to try the whole Night-summoning quest (repeatedly) on our end, which (at once every 32 hours) is quite... annoying.
That said, when the Communes first went to Raziela, there weren't a lot of you guys there at the time (either not logged in, or just not in Muud). I'm not sure there was much of a chance of stopping the numbers we had, though Acrune gave it a shot. I don't think many of them were really insane at the time, it just wasn't great timing.
However... I can easily see how it would be frustrating on Celest's part. Even our more... limited involvement was, to an extent.
I thought some parts of the event were great. I liked how it actually pulled on the heartstrings a bit, with Raziela crying for help, going, "I'm so cold... please, Liam, please... you know I love you?" It was the perfect little child, slowly slipping away. From a roleplaying standpoint, it was great in that respect.
I'm not so fond of the "Okay, let's all have war with Celest now" part that seems to be coming.
Unknown2008-04-13 17:39:01
It's been since near open beta since a god has done something to a commune/city. What does a new god do for Celest? they lost more because this hinders their combat, Eventru won't be defending celestia from magnagora.
Morgfyre2008-04-13 17:40:48
QUOTE(Malicia @ Apr 13 2008, 10:21 AM) 501715
@Nariah- whatever time you put in, you can triple it for Celest. It started with an 8-12 hour beacon lighting fest. Some admin finally took pity on us and lit four of them. Any fights in Muud were against highly neurotic/sociopathic defenders. 5000 power easily gained, for Mag's part.
The quests for Magnagora and Celest were functionally equivalent - so any effort put in was the same on both sides. Note that Magnagora also had to re-do the Necromentate quest (equivalent to the beacons) to get their prophesy. As Estarra noted, we were watching this part pretty closely - realizing that the quests were tedious - and eventually I bumped them ahead to completion when it was clear just how long it was taking. We have been talking in the Havens this morning about how to improve these quests and make them less obnoxious in the future. I'm sorry if they ruined the event for you; hopefully the fact that we are aware they suck and are going to do something about it is at least some consolation.
Doman2008-04-13 17:42:10
My biggest problem.
Event-wise, Celest is getting the crap kicked out of it.
Soulforge, was there a way for Celest to benefit in any way? NOPE
Tainted Broadcast Center, while staying within any semblance of RP, can Celest benefit in any way? NOPE
This most recent event, could Celest have benefitted in any way other than not having Raziela screwed over completely? NOPE
Yep, real fair
(also, Welcome Eventru, you seem really cool)
Event-wise, Celest is getting the crap kicked out of it.
Soulforge, was there a way for Celest to benefit in any way? NOPE
Tainted Broadcast Center, while staying within any semblance of RP, can Celest benefit in any way? NOPE
This most recent event, could Celest have benefitted in any way other than not having Raziela screwed over completely? NOPE
Yep, real fair
(also, Welcome Eventru, you seem really cool)
Xenthos2008-04-13 17:42:47
QUOTE(Morgfyre @ Apr 13 2008, 01:40 PM) 501728
The quests for Magnagora and Celest were functionally equivalent - so any effort put in was the same on both sides. Note that Magnagora also had to re-do the Necromentate quest (equivalent to the beacons) to get their prophesy. As Estarra noted, we were watching this part pretty closely - realizing that the quests were tedious - and eventually I bumped them ahead to completion when it was clear just how long it was taking. We have been talking in the Havens this morning about how to improve theses quests and make them less obnoxious in the future. I'm sorry if they ruined the event for you, but hopefully the fact that we are aware they suck and are going to do something about it is at least some consolation.
Any chance of doing something about the once-every-32-hour quests? Or at the very least allowing for a do-over if the child is slain early by eager commune members who really want to see what Night says? (That is, not losing the Council or the Crown, just get told to go find another child). It's not possible to gather everything back up in an hour for another attempt.
Nariah2008-04-13 17:45:01
Ugh! Raising of the Necromentate took a fair while as well from what I know, it's not like only Celest had to work on their defensive measures. I don't know the details but from what I saw, it was not all pretty and fast.
And what we got the power for? Participation where we did not have to participate at least in my eyes. We could have ignored Raziela inside Muud and say she'll probably be digested anyhow. But we chose to fight to poison her and our efforts landed us said power.
As for all the fighting in Muud, I'm not sure if it was as necessary as people made it out to be. What did you gain from fighting in Muud outside of being able to sit with her? It's not like we sat with Raziela all the time either. We chose to keep our fighters moderately sane and took turns.
And what we got the power for? Participation where we did not have to participate at least in my eyes. We could have ignored Raziela inside Muud and say she'll probably be digested anyhow. But we chose to fight to poison her and our efforts landed us said power.
As for all the fighting in Muud, I'm not sure if it was as necessary as people made it out to be. What did you gain from fighting in Muud outside of being able to sit with her? It's not like we sat with Raziela all the time either. We chose to keep our fighters moderately sane and took turns.
Malicia2008-04-13 17:45:04
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Apr 13 2008, 12:38 PM) 501725
Don't forget having to try the whole Night-summoning quest (repeatedly) on our end, which (at once every 32 hours) is quite... annoying.
That said, when the Communes first went to Raziela, there weren't a lot of you guys there at the time (either not logged in, or just not in Muud). I'm not sure there was much of a chance of stopping the numbers we had, though Acrune gave it a shot. I don't think many of them were really insane at the time, it just wasn't great timing.
However... I can easily see how it would be frustrating on Celest's part. Even our more... limited involvement was, to an extent.
I thought some parts of the event were great. I liked how it actually pulled on the heartstrings a bit, with Raziela crying for help, going, "I'm so cold... please, Liam, please... you know I love you?" It was the perfect little child, slowly slipping away. From a roleplaying standpoint, it was great in that respect.
I'm not so fond of the "Okay, let's all have war with Celest now" part that seems to be coming.
That said, when the Communes first went to Raziela, there weren't a lot of you guys there at the time (either not logged in, or just not in Muud). I'm not sure there was much of a chance of stopping the numbers we had, though Acrune gave it a shot. I don't think many of them were really insane at the time, it just wasn't great timing.
However... I can easily see how it would be frustrating on Celest's part. Even our more... limited involvement was, to an extent.
I thought some parts of the event were great. I liked how it actually pulled on the heartstrings a bit, with Raziela crying for help, going, "I'm so cold... please, Liam, please... you know I love you?" It was the perfect little child, slowly slipping away. From a roleplaying standpoint, it was great in that respect.
I'm not so fond of the "Okay, let's all have war with Celest now" part that seems to be coming.
Just to clarify, most of everyone participating -were- insane. Some pulled out here and there to recover, but they were. Bad timing probably had a part, but I know Desitrus left his forge to go immerse himself in the insanity as well. Nydekion, Narsrim, Geb and I showed up during some of the 'defiling' to try and guard Raziela, which helped out a bit.
And yes, Liam was a centerpiece in the event, but he was so insane, he couldn't do much. I liked their interactions, but too much bad, not enough good overall.
Unknown2008-04-13 17:47:36
The necromentate raising quests are alot easier than the star raiseing quests. Celest got the raw end of the deal there.
Morgfyre2008-04-13 17:49:18
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Apr 13 2008, 10:42 AM) 501730
Any chance of doing something about the once-every-32-hour quests? Or at the very least allowing for a do-over if the child is slain early by eager commune members who really want to see what Night says? (That is, not losing the Council or the Crown, just get told to go find another child). It's not possible to gather everything back up in an hour for another attempt.
No and yes, respectively.
Xenthos2008-04-13 17:51:26
QUOTE(Malicia @ Apr 13 2008, 01:45 PM) 501732
Just to clarify, most of everyone participating -were- insane. Some pulled out here and there to recover, but they were. Bad timing probably had a part, but I know Desitrus left his forge to go immerse himself in the insanity as well. Nydekion, Narsrim, Geb and I showed up during some of the 'defiling' to try and guard Raziela, which helped out a bit.
And yes, Liam was a centerpiece in the event, but he was so insane, he couldn't do much. I liked their interactions, but too much bad, not enough good overall.
And yes, Liam was a centerpiece in the event, but he was so insane, he couldn't do much. I liked their interactions, but too much bad, not enough good overall.
Later on, yes-- I didn't see a whole lot in the way of insanity there from the Celestians who were entering commands when the Communes came in. However, if that was luck, I'll cede the point.
Once you four showed up, I definitely saw the tide of battle in there turn. We were talking with Desitrus quite a while in the interlude between Communes leaving and you four arriving.
Unknown2008-04-13 17:51:37
You know what's funny? That Eventru chose Celest. He got to pick what god and where he'd be associated with. And he chose you guys because he wanted to play with you guys. And you're totally spitting in his face with the whole "What? All we get is a God? He's totally not worth the effort we just put in."
With reactions like that, I wonder how Celest manages to get all the Gods.
With reactions like that, I wonder how Celest manages to get all the Gods.
Unknown2008-04-13 17:52:01
Nariah, you decided to fight to poison her when you didn't have too? So your saying, you wanted to poison Razelia and that's why you deserve 5000 power? *is confused*
Ryleth2008-04-13 17:54:11
One thing I'm sad about is that every single event people moan and gripe and the admins apologise...
So.
Thank you admins for running these events - to me they are interesting, good fun and a break from the norm
(ps. if people have issues how about putting them constructivly and nicely ))
So.
Thank you admins for running these events - to me they are interesting, good fun and a break from the norm
(ps. if people have issues how about putting them constructivly and nicely ))
Unknown2008-04-13 17:55:02
Poisoning Razelia was mechanically the same as healing her. Magnagora just influenced faster and didn't hang around in Muud getting super insanity.