For those of you who missed it, here's what happened at the end of the event. The beginning was pretty boring... just killing and finding shield pieces. Killed Aestra and grabbed the heart... and well, here you go! I really loved how it ended


You give the golden heart of Aestra to Nigelo, Keeper of the Faith.
Your karma rises in response to your deeds.
Nigelo, Keeper of the Faith exclaims, "At last, the golden heart of Aestra!"
Throwing his hands in the air, Nigelo, Keeper of the Faith tosses his head back and laughs sadistically.
Gibbering, insane laughter booms across the Floating Island, sending a shiver down your spine.



Nigelo, Keeper of the Faith devours the golden heart of Aestra, slurping the divine essence within greedily. Madness shines from his eyes, and an aura of incredible power suffuses him.


Nigelo, Keeper of the Faith says, "You have served Us well, Revan. You may travel to the Font of Eternal Hunger in Magnagora, and prostrate yourself before it to receive Our blessings so long as your path remains true."
Nigelo, Keeper of the Faith slowly transforms until the form of the Elder God Morgfyre, the Legion, stands before you. With a sly wink, He dissolves into howling streaks of colour that fly into the heavens and disappear.

The very heavens boom with jagged lightning as the multifarious voices of the Elder God Morgfyre, the Legion thunder, "At last, Aestra's heart - imbued with the divine essence of Hajamin - is Ours. You have played into Our hands all along!"

The Elder God Morgfyre, the Legion, appears in the skies above the Holy Plane of Celestia, which churns and roils with twisted energy around His glowing form.

The image of the Holy Supernal Raziela appears in your mind's eye, branded with the mark of the Demon Lords of Nil.

The mark blackens and spreads across the Supernal, who cries out in terror and fear. It bulges to enormous size and a hand begins to claw its way from her neck.

Impossibly, a creature of shadow struggles from the brand and bursts out, trailing tainted mists.

The creature of shadow flaps its wings and vanishes from Celestia in a black cloud of fumes.

Raziela, drained and wan, touches the skin on her neck cautiously - the mark gone, as the image slowly fades from your mind's eye.

Die in a fire. That is all.

You didn't include the sweet role-play we got after Someone finger-of-deathed Malicia and flicked everyone to astral, this is part of the event too, right?

(Celest): Meleris, Keeper of the Pool of Stars says, "Perhaps the Legion's response had to do that he was personally conducting a ritual on Nil and there was an invasion directly in his location. I am quite sure if the Lady was in a similar situation, the response would be ... appropriate."

(Celest): You say, "I believe you are dead wrong. I believe the Lady would count on Hers to use their own strength, as we do not fear the Taintlings."

(Celest): Eventru says, "SILENCE."

Good going, abusing avenger AND getting a Divine to fight your battles for you.

I understand everyone is really upset over this event, and, in the spirit of preempting the undoubted flame wars that will proceed, I'm locking this thread. There's a lot of high running emotions on all sides of the fence, for everyone.

This strikes like a wonderful time for everyone to get a good nights rest, some hot tea with milk, and a good cookie to go with it.

The threads been reopened, so keep it clean, please!

Now that everyone's cooled down, I've re-opened this topic so you can constructively comment on the event.

This event seemed pretty skewed. Especially right on the heels of the last one.

Celestians are told to do something by an NPC that they revere above all others. It turns out that what they were told to do was really just a ploy by Morgfyre. So now that, in combination with what went on with Raziela, basically tells Celest they'd be complete idiots to continue trusting what the Supernals tell them to do. Or any denizen at all given Meleris' little episode there. There isn't really much fixing this now but in the future with other NPCs it should be pretty carefully considered what the really iimportant ones tell their orgs. Elohora should never have had Celest doing this.

It was on prime so Avechna played a huge factor. If it were on any other plane it would not have turned out the way it did. The defenders (Celest) were crippled in actually stopping the attackers from killing Aestra. Not that it would have mattered because as far as we can tell Aestra really only had one purpose - to die so Morgfyre could eat the heart. This would have been much, much better on a different plane.

Aestra herself, who last we knew was of supernal level strength, just stood there while being killed. Did not hit back at all. Aestra should have been as difficult to kill as she had always been. Not just a lamb led to the slaughter.

When the pillar part was happening, Celest was stopped from doing anything at all about it. By admin interefence. Admins zapping players and transporting them elsewhere during an event is flat out unfair. If an admin wants their god to be holding a special ritual that should not be interrupted they should NOT do it right on the heels of an event as that is just setting players who will no doubt try to interfere up to be messed with.

Various other things: Our gods are pretty much shown in this event to be either clueless, impotent or in league with the enemy. Eventru can apparently smell soulless but couldn't notice that the priest was really Morgfyre? Terentia at least wasn't clearly present.

Extremely disappointing event. Almost unbelievable in its setup and execution. I am uncertain how something like this could ever happen, mainly the end part with Morgfyre.

Best thing I can say is I'm glad I logged off when I did.

Constructively comment on the event?

- The event was long and tedious. Just what we didn't ask for in events.
- There was no roleplay to back any of it up. No explanation how Elohora 'knew' about the Pegasus or what it would do. Japhiel won't answer Celest's questions about it.
- The Avenger was involved, and clearly to the advantage of Mag players.
- There was clear Divine intervention (Morgfyre booting raiding Celestians to Astral, peacing the room in Nil, and killing Malicia for no reason).

So if you want to 'fix' these problems:

- Stop giving us these long quests to do. It doesn't band anyone together. It doesn't make the game enjoyable.
- Turn 'off' the Avenger for people participating in these events.
- Don't make us run around like chickens with our heads cut off if you just want us to lose. Next time you want to have an event like this, just have Morgfyre come to Celestia, take a Supernal and some angels, and take them back to his temple for 'research'. Don't make us think we have some control over the situation when we don't, and are pre-destined to lose.
- Don't turn off supermobs. Aestra stood there like a normal mount when lanfayr was killing her. She is supposed to have an aeon attack or something, at the very least.
- Don't allow Divine to get so grossly involved, like what Morgfyre did.


I don't know what kind of responses you were expecting. I play this game for enjoyment, and being pre-destined to fail sucks.

The worst thing that can happen to you is to lose control of your character.

In an extreme case think of what it would be like if an admin could log on as you, kicking you off the server, and then do whatever they wanted with your character.

A less extreme case is the Avenger preventing you from responding to actions taken by another player.

Another example is when a core NPC you are suppose to respect and follow asks you to do something.

Another example is when you are zapped/peaced/silenced/maggoted/moved by a divine.

So to apply all of this to the event from a celest players point of view:

1. Supernal lied to players
2. Players followed supernals directions
3. Elder gods on players side did not say anything was amiss and continue to do nothing beyond yelling for silence
4. Players are forced by the event to participate in conflict on prime
5. Player run into various restrictions posed by the Avenger
6. Players work around these restrictions as best as possible, this takes a long time, a lot of effort
7. Despite this the other side kills the target of the event by again using the protection of the Avenger
8. Players get rather upset
9. Enemy start to do something off prime
10. Players work to stop this in the exact same manner that the enemy worked to stop them ealier
11. God intervenes and makes stopping the event impossible

I honestly can not think of more ways to remove control from one side of players. The only constructive feedback I can offer is to run all future events exactly opposite this one in every possible manner. It really was that bad.

Celest was made into a pure tool for Mag. The players were used. This needs to never happen again to anyone. Period.

That's actually wrong that there was one outcome planned by Morgfyre. This was a two outcome event, with the possibility of Celest putting the smackdown on Magnagora, and vice versa. While we didn't expect some of the twists and turns, once the event started, we stepped back to allow the chips to fall. (Though I shouldn't say this, I was rooting for Celest b/c of the results of the last event.)

Hindsight is everything, but I hope Celest isn't going to "punish" the Supernals for what ended up being a rocky event and certainly we will learn in planning the next one. In any event, Celest could have "won" and the result would have been unpleasant for Nil (the Supernals weren't lying to you!). The last couple of events we have run were multiple outcome, you just never see the other outcomes.

Ok, the histrionics of metagamers aside, I think there was one major issue. Maybe two.

1. Aestra should have had some defense to allow members of Celest time to figure out what was going on. She should have fought back against any attackers or they should have had to hack through a barrier or something.

2. The Avenger deal. In this case members of Celest should have been able to attack the Magnagorians or at least nullify them when they had the heart. I think this is a case where normal anti-grief mechanics gummed up the event mechanics.

I also think that events where one side may be duped and has to figure it out are perfectly valid. For example Hajamin returning which was actually Morgfyre. I should have realized this because the text Hajamin was using to consume corpses was the same as a Nihilist skill. I didn't know that at the time but anyone who had seen a Nihilist use it should have made the connection, for example. If there were enough hints about Nigelo I think thats fine.

Also wasn't the alternative to Mags stealing the heart, Celest:
1) killing Nigelo
2) Defending Aestra?

On second thought having the option to abscond with Aestra (or mechanically create a something that was just as difficult as killing her) would have been nice.

We did put the smackdown on Mag, Estarra. That's why we lost. We all had status on Mags.

EDIT: Actually, I think I too have learned a valuable lesson here. Next time an NPC tells us to do something, I'm going to ignore them and log out or do something else.

Perhaps after an event you can post exactly what you planned for both outcomes? Exactly how players could have taken both paths?

I am honestly curious how celest had any chance of "winning" this event.

I think seeing both (or however many) possible paths after an event might help players expect multiple paths in the future. It would also allow some feedback on how likely either path would be in practice. I can tell you right now that when something happens on prime the avenger needs to be factored in and you need to clearly understand which side its intervention will favor.

You know what I meant, that there was a "win" situation for Celest.

Anyway, I apologize to those who feel the event was skewed one way or the other. It was not meant to be, and again, we learn from our experiences.

Estarra, how can you honestly say that Celest had a fair chance in this when there was a hardcoded mechanic stopping them from defending the beast they had just worked so long to raise? They had the choice of getting vengeanced or letting Aestra die. And they didn't have long to decide it as Aestra was just standing there waiting to die. Was Eventru or Terentia waiting in the wings to zap any Magnagorans who came up to Celestia to try to stop us if we had managed to keep Aestra from being killed? That would have been just as unfair!!

And unfortunately, IC it very much looks like Elohora was possessed. The Priest that was supposed to be helping us turned out to be Morgfyre! He was laughing demonically as he ate the heart We have no IC evidence anywhere that we accomplished anything except make it easier for Morgfyre. Which quite logically leads to the belief that something is wrong with our Supernals (note that least event where a Supernal recklessly told us to do something and ended up trapped and branded and bound!). They're either stupid or possessed or something!

And OOCly I can't in good conscience change an IC decision to be skeptical about what they tell us. It's not "punishing" the Supernals. It's common sense. We have no faith whatsoever that doing what the Supernals tell us to do is going to bring anything but grief. On the surface of things, if we just didn't do anything at all, we'd be in a better position in both of the last events.

All your comments are fair and certainly we'll look at how to factor in the Avenger more in the future.

If Aestra would have been led to Raziela, the mark would have been removed, there would be a backlash against the Demon Lords, and a special pillar would have been raised in Celestia to bless those who helped.

You raise good points and I apologize things did not go as smoothly as we wanted. I'm not sure what you would have us do now, though, that the event is over.

What would you have us do now?

Don't take this the wrong way but:

How?

Just, for a moment, step back and look at the game mechanics involved in Hajamin's Temple. Magnagora never had to attack us to meet their aim, correct? So this forces the declaration on the part of Celest in order to secure pieces of the shield and corpses. Once people begin getting suspect, the PVE or PLAYER VERSUS ENVIRONMENT side of things begins to get easier for Magnagora due to the limitations on PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER (PVP) imposed by the Avenger and status. By the end of the Temple event, due to having to collect corpses and pieces through force (which, I assume, was part of the event that was intended), a previously Avatar-class mobile is spawned. Except, this mobile now has its MOUNT flag set and is not attacking.

For the pegasus bit, noone from Celest is going to:

A: Get avengered to stop the pegasus from dying.
B: Kill the pegasus as Celest was UNAWARE that the heart is needed for whatever. In fact, Celest would've had to find some way to lead the Pegasus in the time it takes Magnagorans protected by the Avenger to kill an npc that isn't attacking.
C: Know to get the heart. Celestians were not informed that a heart was going to fall out of the NPC in time to pick it up, while the Magnagorans were informed and were looking for it.

Celest followed the directions of the Supernals. Celest received less Divine help in the Temple. Celest aggressively pursued means of securing the pieces of the puzzle as expected. Celest solved the puzzle. Celest got a lot of status and couldn't do diddly to save the horse. I'm just saying, it's not as open-ended as you make it out to be.

You now say we shouldn't question the Supernals but what choice do we have? Really? How do we know that the next time we get sent wherever to pick up whatever that it isn't just more smoke and mirrors for some evil plot that SOMEHOW makes it to Elohora? Just consider it.

At least refund Malicia's essence, that's just out of line.

This would be interesting.



There is president for Gods not being omniscient and having limits. I think there was a case where Lady Terentia couldn't detect the Taint in the case of Hajamin either. Its the same RP reason you can't go to the aquamancer NPC and ask him about things related to cosmic magic (I've tried). Lord Elostian can't recruit members from Magnagora because Morgfyre blocks him and there is some sort of Divine Sphere of influence for example.



I think the logic here is the Ascended individual in the DIRECT presence (room) with an antithetical god is seen as a threat and dealt with accordingly. The others are not and are flung.

Look, I'm not arguing with any of your points and I'm apologizing that things did not go as smoothly as we thought.

As for Aestra, someone could have run in, lassoed her, and ridden her out.