Yes I barely survive at level 90 now against things, please don't decrease elixer advantage.

Right, Dracnari have the same sip problem.

Give faelings a con point or two, and decrease the disadvantage/advantage.

Right now, the sip penalty is keeping two races basically unusable beyond RP, and will soon claim a third when their redeeming quality takes one for the team.

I like seeing racial variety. I'd like it if Viscanti and Dracnari could be viable, and I'll be endlessly annoyed if Aslaran are made non viable due to the balance change in conjunction with the sip/herb penalty.

Put the elixer bonus/penalty on the same sort of system as the balance thing, or just get rid of it for the sake of it's crippling effect on races.

Global: DOWNGRADE effectiveness of elixer advantage/disadvantage (lvls 1/2/3)


This is now live on the test server for your testing pleasure!

If need be, we can look at tweaking races who are impacted by this further but start with testing.

Interesting.

Faeling, 5662 max mana, +2 sip bonus:
1171
1285
1285
1104
Average: 1211

Human, 5662 max mana, +0 sip bonus:
1118
929
1028
1128
Average: 1051

This seems to be a pretty deadly change for Faelings. Especially with the speed reduction also tacked on. Hmm.
(12 con average for a Shadowlord, 10 for Shadowcasters, 9 base). Much smaller sips in general, which the bonus went a ways towards fixing (but not completely)-- seems to not really help the con situation much at all any more.

Kind of getting a bit depressing at this point, to be honest-- the advantages of the race are pretty hammered, while the (non-Demi) disadvantages are still there in full force. Then add in the Demi nerf. Hrm.

Going to have to agree that while faelings deserve nerfing, this is probably too much. They might need more con to compensate.

Too many changes at once doesn't seem to bode well. If this is what people call "light", heavy-handed revamps would be interesting.

Was asleep for a few pages of discussion, so posting to Ashteru earlier: having done both the bashing part and the popularity contest part, the latter was much harder. Ascendants don't necessarily deserve to be lumped in with demigods, though it's not too bad if they are.

Sip bonus changes: that was one of the great things keeping faelings afloat, so yeah faelings are going to need a level higher of sipping to compensate.

EDIT: Shuyin, the reason these are light is that they are band-aid style. By that I don't mean that they only patch surface wounds and are thus ineffective in some way, but they don't address things on a level similar to Aetolia's - which Estarra has already precluded here.

Well, it is light in general, but pretty damn hard on all speed races.

Dracnari sips
(lvl -2 sip penalty)

5145 Max Health!


614
786
606
628
771
733
860
868
696
673

Average sip: 727.5
or 14.13% of max health

O_O

Its ok, I am worried about my Furrikin which makes an OK monk race, and I love being a Furrikin. But I am with holding judgment for now. I do not think the speed changes will affect the furrikin that much.

so the sipping curve just makes me sip for an extra 100. Still doesn't solve the problem. The-problem-is-the-sipping-penalty. I can give links to entire dissertations that Daevos and other people have made about how the sipping penalty destroys Viscanti... a SPECCED RACED for Mag. NO advantages they get make up for it. Not even with the curve does it negate how bad this race is. The changes you have proposed will change nothing. Mag is still going to be human/mugwump/faeling/whatever isn't viscanti. Why? Because of the sip penalty. I guarantee you that if you go through with this without either reducing or getting rid of the sip penalty, Viscanti will still suck, people will STILL not play Viscanti, and people will STILL complain about Viscanti. It's the cold, harsh reality of it. Don't curve sip penalties/baances. FIX the problem! Get rid of the sip penalty!

No.

The sip penalty is not that bad with extra resistances. You've just been given extra resistances. You already have a high con so on top of the resistances you'll be taking less damage than other people to begin with. It is not going to be that major a problem.

Make mana/ego damage extremely ineffective against Viscanti (mindburst, debating, everything). That is the only other option. Brood Viscanti are absolutely useless for influencing (and I very much doubt the influencing boost will do too much - we need revolts on the test server to work that out) and would very probably get killed by a Tae'Dae draining them of mana/ego. Especially considering the recent tactic of combining debating into certain classes offenses, a single debate or two would completely knock a Viscanti out of the fight.

Viscanti having ridiculously low charisma is a ridiculous idea anyway, considering how vain and egotistical they have been portrayed combined with the visible ones of them being physically beautiful too. If its on how some other races view Viscanti, then make it slightly harder for them to successfully debate in villages, but give them a decent pool of charisma there to use.

Even before the DMP changes, having an extremely high STR was a joke - the only stats that really matter for warriors are CON, INT and CHA, because without them, you just get absolutely reamed by anyone with half a brain.

Ew, sip bonus reduction too?

Who can give numbers on how much sipping bonuses/weaknesses affect things right now, pre-change?

Why?

Then you're not going to be hearing the end of people complaining aout Viscanti, Estarra. You may think differently, and that's fine, but I know for a fact that you're overlooking the biggest glaring problem of the race, saying it's fine, and making people suffer for it. Taking on more resistances doesn't help. Making them do more in village inluencing doesn't help. "hey, viscanti are bad because we can't heal at all and can't debate/influence and we have low mana" seems like a clear sign to: get ridof/lower the sip penalty, increase chrisma for a race that's VAIN and puts HUGE emphasis on physical beauty, increase their mana a bit.

Let me show you a chart, Estarra that has been mae over and over and I'll point out to you piece by piece why the fixes you are making are wrong.

Data
Base Viscanti

Strength: 13 Dexterity: 10 Constitution: 14 Intelligence: 12 Charisma: 10 Size: 13
Max Stats excluding Size: 59

Master Viscanti

Strength: 11 Dexterity: 8 Constitution: 14 Intelligence: 15 Charisma: 12 Size: 13
Max Stats excluding Size: 60

Brood Viscanti

Strength: 16 Dexterity: 12 Constitution: 16 Intelligence: 9 Charisma: 9 Size: 15
Max Stats excluding Size: 62

Advantages:
o Can breathe poison gas upon reaching level 50.
o Regenerate health and mana while in Tainted land, level 3.
o Immune from poison gas.
o Resistance to poison damage, level 1.
o Resistance to blunt damage, level 1.
o Resistance to cutting damage, level 1.

Disadvantages:
o Heal more slowly from elixirs, level 2.


Base Merian

Strength: 11 Dexterity: 11 Constitution: 10 Intelligence: 16 Charisma: 13 Size: 12
Max Stats excluding Size: 61

Imperial Merian

Strength: 9 Dexterity: 10 Constitution: 10 Intelligence: 18 Charisma: 15 Size: 12
Max Stats excluding Size: 62

Merian Lord

Strength: 16 Dexterity: 14 Constitution: 15 Intelligence: 13 Charisma: 11 Size: 14
Max Stats excluding Size: 69

Advantages:
o Have a racial language, merian.
o Regain equilibrium faster, level 1.
o Regenerate health and mana while in water, level 2.
o Can automatically swim and tread water without taking damage.
o Can breathe underwater.
o Can DIVE into the ocean depths (RISE to come up).
o Resist asphyxiation damage, level 2.

Disadvantages:
o Are susceptible to fire, level 2.
o Are susceptible to electricity, level 2.


Now let's go over them bit by bit. We'll start with the base stats. Merian already start out with 3 more stat points. The only advantage Viscanti have compared to them are the resistances and regen. For purposes of reality, the regens won't even matter since fights rarely take place on tainted/flooded ground that aren't raids. And even then it's 100% mage dependant

Master Viscanti v. Imperial merian: merians get 2 more stat points, higher int and cha, lvl 1 equilibrium bonus compared to a 4 point difference in constitution... the ONLY thing that a viscanti can't complain about

Brood Viscanti v. Merian Lord: a whopping 7 more stat points for a Merian Lord! 9 int vs. 13 makes merians lords win the absolve battle. Brood Viscanti also only have ONE point of constitution above Merian Lords!. What does this mean? it means that a Brood Viscanti will die far easier than a Merian Lord any day. Why? because a viscanti sipping for 600 will never outdo a merian sipping for 900-1000+. Consider that a merian takes 1,000 damage for a cutting attack and a viscanti, with the resistances, takes... I'd say 800 or so. merian sips for 900 on average, viscanti sips for 600 on average. the viscantiis takes more damage over time, even though the merian is taking more initial damage. Thus, the viscanti loses out.

Not sure how much clearer I can make it. Viscanti is a race that needs help. Please help it

And Revan failed to point out that the offset penalty completely negates the higher constitution, since we would sip for less anyways.



Edit: To expand on more, I can understand the sip penalty being there for the higher constituion, but that also means they sip for less in mana and ego, also heal less wounds. Instead of healing -2 from elixirs, make it -2 from sipping health potions at all. Viscanti would still heal for less, and the low int/low cha wouldn't be sipping for far much less.