I've been saying that for a long, long time.

Hmm. Actually, I just got the numbers, and really... it doesn't look like it was changed that much.



Demi SL faeling

I had no mercy enchantment, not in a wyrded environment, and I waited until after demi regen ticed to sip. The randomness in sip level might be throwing things off a bit, otherwise, that's right about what the difference looks like.

If we were to assume I was a faeling with around 3300 health instead - perfectly reasonable for most non demi-warrior faelings - that would mean the proposed sip bonus nerf makes a difference of about 90 some health per sip.

I meant in relation to having no sip bonus. Wanted to know how bad a level 2 sip weakness actually is.

Maybe viscanti should take a hit in con (-2?, whatever's fair) for lower sip, lvl 1.

Wait, nevermind, heh.

Make the sip only apply to healing from Health Elixirs, it does not effect wounds restoring, mana sipping, or ego sipping.

Why do the Viscanti have this weakness, compared to Elfen or Merian?

If Master Viscanti lose their disadvantages, Imperial Merians should lose their weakness to fire/electric.

Runes might be up for a speed boost.. but I think hexes are fine, its the core around such things that needs change.

Hexes will be able to afflict quickly but the aeon in waning to support it will be more lacking. Not only will mana drains be slower but so will the skills to entangle people.

Some skills will need to be faster, some new skills might be needed, alterations to other ones (like tic timers, costs, etc), and some.

Faeling needs +1/2 con, and +1 str to offset some of the losses.

Mugwump needs lower weaknesses and +1 con.

Tae'dae needs resistance nerf or sipping penalty or somethin.g

Tae'dae are getting sipping nerfed.

This sentiment is the problem with balancing anything from Celest or Magnagora. Both sides are so caught up in there perspective 'arguments' that they are always needing work, and the otherside always gets much.

So when the moment comes that discussion about a real problem begins, the other side goes jumps to an extreme, and deflates any chance of a real discussion.

Its why I only speak up now a days for niche issues, because neutrality is not welcome with half the issues discussed on this board, and it is a sad thing.

However, if a level 2 sip bonus only adds 17% per sip, then should it not be accurate that 17% loss is all that you lose from a potion sip? Yeah, it sucks, but with sparkleberry, healing scroll, mercy/perfection/beauty, and class regen abilities, you have plenty of options, especially when the resistances are counted in.

Why are people doing five sips as a "test" and then claiming their numbers to be the truth? With how randomized sipping is, you should do at least 50 or so if you want to get actual accurate values.

+2 sip with high stats vs. -2 with low stats results in nonlinear differences as both sip bonuses and stat levels decide sip rate. The main issue here is mindblast/absolve, against which having low ego/mana and low sip rates is a very bad thing.

I don't see the huge issue with the sip penalty. Terenas once did the numbers on it, but I can't find his chart. Someone should make a new one, including other skillset abilities and how they may offset racial issues.

http://forums.lusternia.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=195338

Now, who wants to test it for us?

This argument was made in 2005, probably before more widespread Mana and Ego killing skills. Once again, change the -2 to healing less from health elixirs only, to balance out the high constitution, and Viscanti will be balanced. The 9 int, 9 charisma absolutely kills sipping with -2. The healing less from wounds (which probably hasn't been computed somewhere) absolutely kills Viscanti too.

ok, let's compromise: make it a lvl 1 sip penalty, increase int by 1 point and cha by 2... lower the con by 1. Keep the rest of the fixes. The race is fixed!

Lets see Viscanti feedback...

-Warrior Viscanti need more cha and int so they arent so insanely easy to kill. Along with this they could use either lower sip penalty or below idea
-Use the idea that in poison gas the viscanti can regen lvl 2? (same for in taint in this case) so that while viscanti can bring their own regen its also gustable to remove (instead of flat regen). Alternatively just give them lvl 1 regen all the time or perhaps lvl 2/3 health regen and lvl 1 mana regen or something?
-Yes the sipping still kind of sucks.. I now sip for 1000 at 6600 health instead of for 800.

Basically.. over all.. give warriors more int/cha and something to cope with the low stats (even at like 10 per stat they could use help most likely). Change regen to be more readily available perhaps by allowing it in poison gas.

As for others..
Dwarf and Tae'Dae need to be given a problem to cope with the high level of resistances, since speed isnt one anymore.

-Some guilds will indeed need some changes

Don't forget Trill. Still useless in combat and fairly useless in most influencing, but then again, I wasn't expecting anything spectacular when I became a Trill warrior.

High elfen are going to need looking at with these large viscanti buffs, too. (Not elfen lord though.)