The problem is more on the skills themselves and mugwump speed than it is on the speeds of races without an eq bonus.

Just a question which I hope is going to be answered:

Why are Demigods & Titans getting nerfed if the things that made them problematic (speed) is getting nerfed as well?

Yes, thanks for making my point more valid.



Why are faelings getting their sipping nerfed if their speed is getting nerfed as well?

Good question, one which hopefully will be answered by admins too!

Faelings are getting pwned because they are evil ltle things that had too much love.. who are being nerfed in reality because of corrections to OTHER races.

And monks will always hurt eventually.. but after a single combo.. and of PPK? Bad.

Malarious, if you ask any competent monk, PPK is the only way to win. The specialised skills (especially for Ninjakari/Emofists) are virtually impossible to kill anyone with.

Was pointing out that the skill with lower damage and wounding was already powerfully strong, not anything about using spec, just that fists o fury were killer without a weapon.

Time for some sleep.

PPK really is the only way to win.

PPK doesn't do lower damage, only lower wounds (and then only the punches, which make up less than half of the total damage/wounds to begin with). And you didn't actually have to sip. You would have been taking less damage if you applied health. You only need to sip if you're in danger of dying.

Actually, remembering me testing out viscanti once, I think the regen even covered a little more. (Like 100 health more than the sipstrength that was taken away added up would give)
And yeah, Viscanti look fun. I might try bashing as one on astral once these changes go in. Together with poison gas in PvP, it could be fun.

Oh, by the way, here's a good website from someone whose name I can't remember. Always worked well for me, but I guess the changes will screw that up.


http://homepage.mac.com/evmaker/lusternia/Calculators.html

Other forum users have suggested that there are other respects in which they are unbalanced, in terms of the regen and in terms of the stat bonuses. If you don't think that's the case, now is the chance to present your arguments.

Was it decided that demigod was just too much of a buff or that the demigod buffs in the places they were at were causing too much of a problem (+3 str to speed races)?

Well, first to the statbonus:

In my oppinion, this was already adressed more than enough with the changes to stats. I do not know how much dex effects monkcombat yet, but I know that higher strength was pretty much useless to most Demigodraces except Aslarans and Faelings, who profited from the increase enough to make them deadly together with their speedbonus. The same speedbonus now gets a significant downgrade, so we might see Demigods going for more diverse races now. I also remember the constitution stat being downgraded after the statweighting a second time, to decrease the overall health even more.
Of course, Demigods are still better tanks than any nondemigod, and can take a bit of punishment, but as a Faeling with +3 to con, I have about 900 more health, pushing me to 4300 undeffed instead of 3400 at level 100. If we consider warriors, even non-demi, being able to dish that much damage out in two to three combos with just elemental runes, who were decreased in price recently, taking away more health from Demigods, who invested a large time to gain that margin of additional protection, seems a little unfair, especially considering the other perks of Demigod are RP only, with the exception of Divinefire. (Which I would trade off for a level 3 regen, to be honest.)

Secondly, regeneration:
To be honest, I only love regeneration because of bashing. For anyone besides warriors, the regeneration wasn't enough to really make a difference in combat as a whole. Right now, with 4300 health, I regen 344 health every 10 seconds, which isn't terribly much for bashing, but it's still something. Seems pretty balanced to me for most races, it might make you survive a little longer in PvP, but I doubt if you were that low, that you would stand much longer.
The main problem the regeneration poses is when coupled with warriors. As Tae'dae, I could easily reach 11400 health, which would tick for a whooping 1000 health every 10 seconds. That's considerably more and CAN unbalance PvP a lot.
Now, look at what we would have after the change: Monks, Mages and Guardians without racial regeneration in their own territory/somewhere else would get considerably less regen, something along the lines of 83 health every 10 seconds, without much chance to push that same regen higher except with buying artifacts.
Most of the warrior-races however either come with a built-in regen or have enough mana to keep up Athletics regeneration, which is another level 1 or 2 regeneration, so across the board, they'd still be able to achieve level 3 regeneration rather easily, which would basically keep their tanking the same as before the change.
So, summing above up: If the change is to try to make Demigods a little less tanky, above change goes way overboard for everyone but warriors, who will remain basically unchanged. At least in my oppinion. Corrections are welcome!



Meh, I am not sure how coherent this is, I wrote it before my after-food-nap. I'll think of more after I wake up again.


PS: After the statchanges, I actually got the impression that there was considerably less complaints about Demigods (except Demigod Faelings/Aslaran).

Disclaimer: I am just a little frustrated, I generally always think changes decided on by the admins are good, but this is the first instance were I really think "Meh....that sucks big time." especially after investing so much time into getting it. Anyway, to add to the disclaimer: I just want to say thank you for allowing people to list their concerns, and that you actually listen to them.

To be fair, most of the times when it's being discussed as unbalanced is when it's applied to a race with low stats to begin with, as +3 to 12 is far more noticeable than +3 to 20. When the low stats are the only/main penalty for a race, Demigod/Titan go a long way towards removing the weaknesses of a race (and that's the general argument I've seen about the stats). This leaves things unbalanced when there are other major advantages, such as speed, that were a tradeoff for low stats.

As to whether or not it'd still be unbalanced with the massive reductions to the fast races... well, they'd still get far more from the stat bonuses than other races, but ar far less effective on the attack front as well (less chance to utilize those bonuses than previously). I guess I'm not really going to give a suggestion one way or the other until a more finalized set of changes is put up, though.

What about this, though. Once you become a Demigod, once per, hrm, IG-year you can go to one of the seals and change your "Demigod-spec".
For example, a Life Demigod could have +3 con and +3 healthregen, a Beauty Demigod could have +3 cha and +3 egoregen, etc. Make choosing your first spec be costless, any change after that 100k essence or something, for Demigods/Ascendants with seals half that if they use their seal.
This effectively makes Demigods choose what they are good in but still keeps them balanced, imo.

...You...didn't read my post, did you. That's basically what I said in the first part. (Or at least meant.)

I did, but I thought I'd 1) Clarify it a bit for you, and 2) Lend my support so it's not just a single person pointing that out.

The bolded part is the important part. Even when Magnagora was on top, Viscanti was considered a sub-par race, because the regen ONLY applies whilst in taint, which means as long as your mages blow all their power tainting every piece of land available and hoping that your fight manages to take place on tainted soil, which when we were on top and there were only 3 orgs wasn't all THAT often. While flavourful, it makes only slightly more sense than having the regen only working during a certain phase of the moon in a certain month every fifteen years and balancing it around that.

Out of combat situations, especially for the Ur'Guard Viscanti, it requires you to drag a mage along with you everywhere or only bash in pre-tainted areas and hope that nobody has come along to change the terrain type. Look at the Gorgog caves if you want to see how well this particular type of regen is - the entire cave complex used to be full of herbs, between all the mages bashing there making it their terrain type it has been completely wiped out of herbs more times than I care to count.

I think half of these suggested nerfs to faelings/mugwump and demigod are pretty unnecessary. Faelings are having their speed, and their sip bonus nerfed, and getting absolutely nothing to compensate for it. The recent stat changes mean that improvements at higher stat levels became more and more insignificant, yet demigods are losing +1 to everything as well as 2 levels of regeneration. How does any of that solve the problem? The problem isn't so much with demigods, but classes like warriors who can deal stupid amounts of damage like 1k+ per swing if they have their weapons runed up nicely, possibly bards too. Demigod stat bonuses are fairly irrelevant to classes like monks who do crap damage whatever they are, or guardians who rely more on stuff like soulless to get their kills. The speed bonuses need to be nerfed, but the other downgrades aren't really necessary with that in mind.