Other ideas that aren't necessarily related to making an aslaran more tanky:

+1 for number of rooms they can move before getting the hasty message
Sprinting as an innate racial bonus
Can cause extra bleeding with cutting damage sources

Maybe?

Good monk races are (currently) faeling, Krokani and human. Why?

Faeling: high dex (main monk stat) and they have the speed bonus, which ashteru explained to you earlier why it's needed. Also they have no weaknesses.

Krokani: high str, dex and con... all very important stats for a monk and they're tanky as hell. They can dish out alot of damage very quickly because of their stats. Add that to high magic and blunt resistance and you get a solid monk.

Human: at around lvl 90, their stats become high enough that the dex bonuses from the skillsets boost it to a very decent amount (i get 17 dex as a human), and their str is also on a good level (I can get 15). No penalties and quite a solid race.


Why illithoid are not too good: Faeling and Krokani beat illithoid for dexterity. No real resistances that matter (psionic resistance doesn't really play that great a role, I think). Their regen is -extremely- limiting as there aren't many underground places, and undervault conflicts don't happen too often. Also, the magic weakness can kill them in certain situations. Low cha and int compared to the three above races, though illdrain makes up for this alot. Their low strength doesn't help them either and there really is nothing benefical to the race that makes people go "Hmm, this is a good monk race".

Monks, using base kata or specialization, need speed to have any chance to get ahead of peoples healing, right now. A slight level 1 boost to speed, pre-changes, is barely enough in an average case, forcing the use of rushing or hyperactive, which results in much whining, or against anyone with a web enchantment or headslam, give the monk a lot of wasted power.

I think the Nekotai have a lot of ways to disrupt healing, and a Ninjakari can be down right painful if used right... but the crutch of the situation is in order for Nekotai or Ninjakari to kill, they need ruptures, and right now, because of the early rupture whining, it is REALLY easy to stay at 1 rupture unless you have a bad spell with dulak or the monk can give concussion or keep the target stunned, once again forcing a reliance on head wounds and ppk, as the stun and concussion are more reliable then dulak. Now with dulak or concussion, we have limited means to keep them from running, so normally when this mistake happens, the other person just leaves, and is cured up enough to keep fighting on hard.

We either need to hinder better, or be a bit faster.

I know Roark has touched on this previously, but posting combat logs is not really helpful when making a case. They are too long to read and then interpret to be able to take the time to look at them.

I'd still like to request +1 strength for Faelings, as the whole speed thing still does hit the non-stun specializations very strongly. Though the higher sip bonus should help counter the lower effectiveness of it, I think we've discussed in depth the offensive issue that this change introduces.

If you want to limit it some, it could be an addition only to Shadowlord so it doesn't affect monks-- but the main issue with (non-Demigod) Shadowlord Warriors was bonecrusher's ability to use stun at very high speeds. You're reducing the speed to fix that part of bonecrusher, but it does hurt the other specializations. As such, I really don't think it's too much to ask for something to help address that part of the other specs which is getting hammered without really upgrading the bad part of Bonecrusher once more.

I have to ay that I don't think it's a good idea at all to be rushing this and get it done by this weekend. The issues of races have been argued for far too long t just have a rush job done, and I think many players would value and appreciate time and care being taken into all of this, especially since now is probably one of the BEST chances we'll get at fxing the glaring issues. Through this process of balancing, though, alot of thought has to be put into things like "how do we make up for it" and thorough testing should be done. Also alongside this comes the longed for monk and bard specs, which I think ALOT of people have been pining for. Looking at just a few races, rushing the fixes and "getting it over with" is a bad idea I think, and I'm sure alot of people would agree. Changing races gives a very lrge impact to how people play their classes and the game overall... so let's be as thorough as we can!

I'm beginning to think that, given the changes being made to Trill, that we really aren't supposed to be a physical combat race. Seems like we are purposefully made squishier, though we shouldn't be squishier than faelings. With the Charisma and Seduction upgrade, it appears that Trill were/are built for mind and influence. Can you confirm or deny, Estarra?

A step in the right direction.

But Estarra, excuse me, what about the Mugwumps?

With the new changes they get a very small speed boost, low constitution, and massive elemental weaknesses. There is absolutely no reason to be one with these changes, ever. Why do you have it out for Mugwumps?

Please give us more int, more con, a natural evade, anything to make up for the loss of our speed. Why buff Faelings but not Mugwumps?

Mind and influence, maybe. But we get BROKEN in fights against melee, and our influencing really isn't much to make up for it.

THINK OF THE MUGWUMPS!

I don't think this is a "rush job" at all. We could spend months arguing about what should/shouldn't be done. Rather than endlessly deliberating, we should come to thoughful decisions within the week. If you still see glaring issues, point them out and make your argument and offer suggested fixes.



I cannot confirm or deny. They are meant to be what they are.



Their speed boost is not "very small", and they were pretty much universally considered leaning towards overpowered to begin with. The question is that now with these adjustments, are they in line with the other races? We may consider a small upgrade but I don't think mugwumps are in as dire a situation as you seem to exhort.

I think everyone needs to take a chill pill for a second. The changes aren't done yet! Anyways for faelings I think a plus 1 to constitution would do it -shrug- they are supposed to be super weak right, Only 2-3 feet tall and all

Correct, it's not like mugwumps are worthless since they still have -a- speed boost. Faelings on the other hand took a whack to the sip bonus as well apparently, so they could maybe use a small tankiness fix.

Can someone please back me up? I'm tired and sick, and I just dont have willpower for this atm. All I can hope for is that there are a few people out there who aren't on the "mugwumps should get nerfed they are so overpowered bandwagon". Night.

Mugwumps do basically get smashed by about anything now. Maybe give them a sip bonus or a con bonus?

Also: TRILL RACIAL LANGUAGE!!!

Hehe, now if I only knew what they were, I'd be all set !

EDIT: Aye, racial language! Unless there is a reason we don't have one that we don't know about... that's we're really like to know about... in a mysterious sort of way...

From what I hear, the new lvl 3 boosts come out adding 12% to speed... which is absolutely ridiculous when you think about how a speed race is built. they sacrifice tankiness and durability for fast offense. The offense has been neutered and mugwumps aren't getting anything in compensation. This is why I think it's a rush job, bcause of situations like this. Tweaking a speed class requires care, not just "slash the speed, yay fixed!" lower the weaknesses of mugwump and add some con to the poor fellows if you're gonna slow them down that much. Slow and steady requires the ability to live long enough to get to the finish line

All I can say is I love you. Now if you were to accidentally hit the boost Igasho Int and Dex I think i'd leave my wife for you

mugwumps still have a horribly high intelligence, meaning they have a lot of mana, and magic based damage is pretty fuggin buff. Relatively, they are also the fastest eq race out there... so...

Seems like there are easier solutions than this anyway.

Remove rushing and hyperactive, remove the speedup of monk forms. Raise the floor and lower the ceiling for knight weapons.

This would negate the problems with monk's stuns and grapples and the extremeness of high ended knights on cloth while allowing the lower ended knights being useful.

It's much easier and it won't destroy speed races (and yes, the racial changes would indeed obliterate mugwumps. They rely on extreme speed and halfing their speed would be completely unreasonable for the damages they take with the tiny health they have available. Even a mugwump timeslipping while quickened can't negate all attacks currently.)