Again, Ildaudid, having done both, the popularity contest part was harder. In Serenwilde there were only 2 real candidates. Yet Aesyra, me, almost Sojiro, Niara, Rika, Accalia, Lendren, and almost Galaphyrae and Asmodea all managed the bashing part. I may even be missing people.

Ascendants do deserve to be a little better than demigods. I'm still okay with being nerfed down to demigod level on grounds of fairness, but I want to dispell the myth that it's somehow less work to get there.

Back to Rika, while level 3 resistances certainly compare well with level 3 regen (or did pre-this change, they may not now), the strength does matter for monks, as does the con, and the magic vulnerability is not massively significant as it only really affects MDs and Bards. And some bashing, I guess, but poison affects bashing too.
On top of that, kephera -should- be better monks than loboshigaru, as should illithoid. With nothing like a specialisation race to speak of (and the admin have been silent on that front unless I missed a post) it is not unfair for male kephera to have a solid set of monk stats.

Any comments on my list? Beyond the Demigod one, as you say that's done.

Other than demis, you asked about faelings getting strength and kephera being now too strong.

I'm not convinced faelings should get another strength point. Regarding kephera, I just disagree with those who say they were "decent" to begin with. I'll consider some minor disadvantages but am standing firm on the upgrades.

Thanks Estarra!


Also I'll just throw it out there......

Illthoid

Remove Poison Resistance

Add Are resistant to insanity, level 1. Slightly reduces rate of accumulating neuroses in Muud and Astral (or any new soulless areas).

Or would this break the Illthoid/Kephera balance you've got with poison resistance/weakness.

I fought as a Kephera and bashed to 100 as a Kephera. Yes, Kephera were decent as is, and did need the downgrade they received. I did not have problems being a kephera monk in PVP, but I also did not feel speed was the end all be all to being effective with Kata. I will point out that being a Kephera meant that I was able to soak damage with splendor robes better than I could as a warrior with Tracking. With the reduction in damage, I was able to focus more on applying health and restarting my George Jetson offense.

Seriously, male Kephera do not need any upgrades at all. Heck, I think it may be better to even remove their ability to wear robes, and give their damage resistance the added component of wound reduction like it was 60/60 robes (Kind of like Ildaudid’s idea).

Now on the subject of Demigods, the reduction is fine to me. I just feel that Ascendants should have the exact same reduction, considering the fact that they do have an extra skill-set full of abilities Demis do not have access to, and because they have an advantage over Demis when it comes to Domoth battles.

Ascendants are better, even if their stats and regen are reduced down to the new Demigod level. Ascendants will not lose their special nature. Also consider the fact that if the old regen and stats were overpowered for Demigods, then they are even more overpowered for Ascendants considering the extra things they receive. So, yes I do believe Ascendants should receive the downgrade too, regardless of the arguments concerning which is harder to achieve.

Yep, I'm fine with that on a general level as mentioned.

Kromsh, that's not really fair. Estarra keeps asking questions and trying things and sharing opinions. I mean, I'm not happy with what's happening to Aslaran, but there's a good chance that I'm just wrong. But I give my opinion anyway, because it's good for them to know what the players who are effected think.

In the same way, Estarra could have just given us the first changes, and said "have a nice day". Instead, we've had days of dialogue on it, and people seem happier for it. Please don't ruin a good thing with frustration?

I don't mind Ascendants having the same reduction as Demigods, but I do want to point out that saying Ascendants have an advantage over Demigods in Domoth battles is just a part of the story. Unopposed, Ascendants do have a major advantage. Opposed, though, Demigods have the advantage-- instant reform for 100k essence versus 15 minutes or 500k essence is a pretty major difference.

Just send in a suicide squad to kill the Ascendant claiming the throne, if it's not a tanky warrior, and you've got a lot of time to do whatever while they reform. We've done this to Shiri before, and there's not much he can do about it.

To Estarra: You asked for our opinions, and I gave them. Anyways-- what doesn't convince you about the Faeling point? Faeling speed is (was?) overly strong in the hands of Bonecrushers due to stun, and Monks due to stun / ruptures. Faeling speed for the other specializations was pretty balanced, as the nastier afflictions are harder to achieve (requiring more wounds). This isn't the case for stun in Bonecrusher, with their 2 weapons. Low strength means a lower ability to gain wounding, so even with a faster speed, you're picking up more lower-level afflictions while a much higher-strength race is picking up fewer, but more powerful afflictions. Non-demigod faelings spend a lot of their time in low-heavy wounds, but have a harder time getting to crit than the higher strength races. That's mostly how you guys set them up the last time you did racial balancing, and with DMP they were competitive with Merian/Elfen Lords. Slowing the race down on the whole does drag it back a ways from that point.

You are forgetting other aspects of the Domoth battles that that are in favor of Ascendants. Ascendants are able to hold Domoths longer than Demigods (Ceteris Paribus). Ascendants also do not have any essence drain just for being in the Domoths realm. Ascendants are able to hold more Domoths than their Demigod counter part (Ceteris Paribus). So your argument based on one particular aspect of the Domoth Battles (death) does not negate the fact that over all, Ascendants come out ahead over Demigods when it comes to participating in them.

Looking at those others strictly by themselves without looking at the whole thing, yes, there are more-- but the death part plays a huge part in all of those. You have to get the throne to get those benefits. Yes, they are significant benefits, but I see them more as a balancing act for the negatives that make it harder for an Ascendant to participate than a straight-out advantage. Without them, it'd be pretty rough for a (non-Warrior) Ascendant to participate. Of course, it still is rough (hence Nejii pretty much challenging when nobody's around except Seren support, and at that point the disadvantage pretty much goes away).

No, they shouldn't. I don't suppose you've been to this little place full of Loboshigaru called Toscha? I hear they've had monks there virtually forever.

There have been plenty of orclach ur'dead too, but it wouldn't be unfair for brood viscanti to have a slight advantage over them in terms of making good ur'guard warriors.

There's also that enigmatic 'Which has been there longer, Tosha or Kephera?' question. They also study entirely different forms of martial arts, too.

I am looking at the whole thing, and I disagree with you. Having double duration in Domoths and being able to get more than the demigods is no small matter. Also, 500k essence is nothing when you consider the fact that you will never lose Ascendant due to 0 essence. Never lose it, and the only reasons why you need essence, since the demigod specials are pretty darn cheap to use and limited in scope, are to allow you resurrect immediately and to train in your new spiffy skill-set. So trying to use 500k essence loss, when essence in the end does not mean a loss in your status as an Ascendant, is definitely taking a very narrow view of that very minor penalty Ascendants possess.

No, Xenthos is right on this one. 500k is not that much once in a pretty long while, but it adds up with more than one death. And if you die once trying to get a throne but still want to get it rather than give up, since a demigod wouldn't have to give up, you can end up losing 1.5M or more where a demi would lose 300k. Sometimes you might just plain run out from that, particularly if you've been trying to exercise the ability to learn this ascendant skillset that keeps getting brought up as if it were free.

You are the one who keeps mentioning the new skillset as a major benefit (not that it isn't, of course, but we're still in the process of learning it). Perhaps it'll be different with the skillset transcended, but at the moment 500,000 essence is a huge deal.

Dying twice during a Domoth battle is 1,000,000 essence (which is not a piddly amount), 30 minutes timeout, or 15 minutes and 500,000. I really don't see how that's minor, especially since dying 2-3 times in a contested Domoth battle really isn't out of the question.

What good is asking a question if you ignore the answer(s) and make your own conclusion? That's what has been happening, for the most part. I'm sure we all appreciate the thought, but in reality we're not really being listened to. (Not that I think buffing kephera, etc is the end of the world, but it certainly wasn't called for and is a step in the wrong direction.)

It is a major benefit, when no one else has access to it but the few. Are you ungrateful for what you have received (for free mind you)? I would consider an extra skill-set a great boon, considering the fact that it actually gives a person a reason to gather more essence. Anyhow while 500k seems significant to you and Nejii, to me it seems very minor considering the other benefits you receive. Add in the fact that you don't even lose essence for just standing in the Domoth realm, and yea 500k a death is not a big deal when 0 essence does not equal Titan at 66%.

Just a question: Do you consider Demigod to be free?

No, I'm not ungrateful for it, but I suppose I'm not actually getting your definition of free.