I'd also like to chime in my excitement over the Illithoid changes. I might actually be able to influence now! (I think...I've never seriously tried it because of a few bad attempts)

Theres a page on the envoy wiki under collab pages.. if you need to find changes we will be updating that (least I will and Talkan knows its there).

I know there will be problems and I oddly enough found some sound answers that arent overly complicated or strong (you may all go into shock now.. or denial..).

Large post coming on races.

I think both Kephera and Illithoid deserve some sort of RP thing in general as well, ignoring the various pvp/pve upgrades to make them viable as a race. This ability ought to help in that regard.

Also, I like the removal of aslaran sip penalty, it's lovely.

Very cool sounding. I'd like to see this as well.

Just to make sure that I'm caught up with everything concerning the global and racial changes currently up in the test server, I thought I'd put up the compiled list to ensure that I'm not missing anything. If someone spots something missing or is mistakenly noted, kindly point it out since in all this discussion, I wouldn't be surprised to have missed something. Oh, and just to shamelessly throw in another plug for Trills, lets give them another point of INT and an Empowering bonus and I'd be set to switch over.

Forumfavours for Xiel!

The eq/balance changes wouldn't be necessary though! Rather than fix the specific problem, it seems like you're taking a round about solution that has other rippling effects which neuter some classes and races, requiring more work for everone. I just don't understand why fixing the actual problem is less inticing than creating new ones.

I also admit that I don't understand the code, perhaps it isn't easier. But, the effects seem much too large with side-effects that must be countered, recountered and recountered (just look at all the different adjustments already been made to races and how they're not close to being perfect yet ).

I just don't understand the neccesity for balance and eq changes coupled with race changes to fix a problem that lies within guild skills and weapon stats. I do hope that you find this post not as argumentative, but inquisitive and suggestive, by the way.

Post script. Is correct inside ()? I've no idea.

The eq/balance changes are necessary for classes like bards too, to stop everyone having to be mugwumps in order to afflict people at a decent pace. Balancing around them is a bitch when there's no way for classes to be compensated offensively for their afflictions being slower.
Warriors have a slight leeway since the faster races can be given less wounds/damage instead.

can be fine, but you can just use a new set of () (like this (for example)).

I thought you were talking about DMP for a second.

Pshaw, I'm just as OCD-like concerning categorizing things as the next person. You should see me on the envoy wiki. <.<

Heres my thoughts no races... bolded areas are changes I made as suggestions in response to Estarra asking for changes to things.. I only brought up races that have some flaw in them still, AKA Kephera wouldnt be on here.. they have a weakness now they should be ok. Posts include racial changes

While there is no bold I just wanted to point out resistance to basically everything. Being drunk needs to have an impacting effect for sure (it seemed to be fairly balanced when I tried it).


Trill while a good race needed to see a bit more love in the flavour area as well as revealing the intelligence of bird kind.


I actually really like what Viscanti are like, the changes are for 2 main reasons. 1) Charisma effects if the denizen can reply.. at low charisma the denizen will actually hit back and even with a reduced penalty to sipping is still a noticable effect (I am open to anyone checking if 11, 12, and 13 charisma will get hit back). 2) Debating improved to prevent giving pure charisma boosts and instead improving their debating with having lower ego.


While I agree they could use a strength boost, and that the weaknesses should help alot with balancing them, I do not agree that they need a large boost in con considering 12 is already +2 mugwump with much higher resistances.

Edited for female Kephera.. forgot thei got changes

I am not sure where to touch on there.. but their int is high enough for a caster race, and their con is higher than most races. Not just a good monk but a good most things.


Dropped weakness a bit, gave a sip bonus, and added 1 con to help with their major loss of speed. The weaknesses will still be rather noticable but the slightly higher con and minor sip bonus should help them cope with damage better since they quite literaly lost 50% of their advantage.


Cats are notoriously stuck up (the I am too good for you cats, etc) and have 9 lives. As such I have upped their charisma and con.


Changes in case you cant tell at the end is I removed the con boost to shadowcasters and lowered shadowlord con boost to 1. I gave the race +2 con pre spec to make them a better race even without spec, also gave them another strength. This should increase their damage and tanky in light or reduction in speed and sipping.

Those are the thoughts on the current racial changes at least. If you support or dislike anything post it so Estarra has more of an idea.. I have posted the changes and the why.

Hey, that's a really good idea. If you're going give female kephera more intelligence, and to a lesser degree charisma, I think it would be fair to take 1 or 2 constitution points off them. They still have a lot of physical resistance, but are a bit less tanky, which imo, still puts them ahead of other races.

So, after playing around with several different warrior races, I think the real problem is with how stats have such greatly diminishing returns once they get high enough. All the extra STR that an Igasho has compared to a Aslaran still doesn't help that much. And no matter how much balance/equi advantages get toned down, this will probably still be a problem.

I'd hate to want to return to that issue once more, but higher STR/INT really will need to matter more if races that have them as a distinct advantage are to become advantageous at all. Especially Igasho/Tae'dae.

I think that the tae'dae need to have atleast a level 1 sip bonus.

I think that stats above 18 need to be looked at again, so that having a 15 str and a 19 str arn't basically the same thing.

Also, I think races need to be thoroughly tested in comparison to eachother.

It appears clear to me that the player base so far has only really tested and compared "Hot topic" races, and have ignored the rest or the ones they don't care about. This is really going to mess things up later, and sadly I have no time to really help with that effort.

QFT.

I don't think aslaran or faelings need more con at this point. With the sip adjustments they should be fine (I'm not even sure if upping the faeling sip was entirely necessary).

And Mal, in your last post you have SL faelings still getting +3 STR on top of the proposed base 8. Was that on purpose, or an oversight?

Rather than lowering mugwump weaknesses, weaknesses and resistances should probably be brought together like sip bonuses and stat raising.

Lets look at stats then. The weighting needs to change I agree.. below is a pseudo table to reflect effects of str and int... each has its own table. A mod of 1 means its worth the same as normal points. '.5' means its worth half a normal point. Basically anything marked as 1 means its a notable while .2 would mean it would have very little return. Values are not quite the same because of how str also plays into wounds and we cant have insanely high damage int races though the speed drop is being accounted.

Int
Stat - Mod
(1 to 16) - 1
17 - .9
18 - .9
19 - .85
20 - .8
21 - .7
22 - .6
23 - .5
24 - .4
25 - .3

A very standard decline in value, but also means that imperial merian at base would have a fairly powerful attack (though wouldnt hit as fast as they used to). This should make bards noticably stronger I imagine but they are taking one of the largest hits (if need be attack speed om being maestro can be reduced).

Str
Stat - Mod
(1 to 14) - 1
15 - .9
16 - .9
17 - .8
18 - .7
19 - .7
20 - .6
21 - .55
22 - .5
23 - .4
24 - .3
25 - .2

The values here are lower as to prevent damage and wounds from getting too high (mitigate demigods as well).

These values could be grossly wrong as what would be better, but if we establish what kind of curse it is we can decide where we want things. Strength shouldnt mean you do insane damage at all times unless you use a damage weapon.. in which case you shouldnt do high amounts of wounds. Int shouldnt mean you 3 shot lvl 80 players but you should have a reason to take mugwump or merian over tae'dae.

They are close to going live, why not check it out for a week or two if the admins are willing to revisit the issue if there is a prolonged problem with it?

I know bal/equil stuff is super hard to test on roark's server due to the lag, so this would give us some time to recheck on the faster site and see how much of an impact some of the things truly are.