Believe it. For many game years when Thoros was pulling his guard bash stunts on Serenwilde, first before his vacation to Glomdoring, and then after his return, I kept saying to the various Serenwilders, I knew. -tell- the leadership of Magnagora. The first time, he got told to back off. The second time, no one bothered to tell Magnagora. At least, no one important in Magnagora. Thoros and his gang were always very smart, making sure they did not raid when the leadership they knew would be around to cut short their fun, because it was damaging to the 'political relations' etc etc. What was known OOC could not be dealt with ICly because of laid back leaders of the 'victimised' org. When nothing happened ICly, I went one step further and spoke to one of the party members of Thoros' gang to tell him OOC to slow down the attacks. Unfortunately, that was ignored as well. Anyways..i think I'm off the topic, so I'll stop now :S

Can you offer any ideas though?

Catarin has said she thinks the difficulty of raising a demon lord (and presumably a supernal and aspect) should be looked into.

What other mechanical changes are you looking for? Do you want one sided changes with the idea they would be removed once Mag was "strong" again (how would you even define that?). If the changes affect everyone then it will just make it that harder to do anything back against celest once you are "strong" again.

What types of things would suddenly improve the numbers of people joining Mag and getting powerful? If no one attacked them for X days/months? Even if you make attacking hard, so long as Mag participates in RP events that harm other orgs they -will- get counter attacked.

It took weeks of mostly constant effort on a large part of celest to get to where we are. The numbers available was part of it sure, but I think it is already to the point where only an Org with these kind of dedicated active skilled members can push conflict. The difficulty has been raised so much right now that I honestly do not see Mag dropping the Star. If you make it harder then what? Might as well just remove the ability to meaningfully attack as no org will be able to pull it off.

Which would be awful. Making it harder to kill them or even kill all five would be a better goal at the moment. Making them harder to raise would make it a longer process than it is for the weaker org. If anything they need to strengthened or let the demonlords assist each other like the supernals do.



IMO Magnagora is destroyed and on a downward spiral like the whole game. I think let the city die and work on Hallifax, but some forceful one sided pacifying effect is needed or even two sided with conflict direct to areas that don't wreck a guild's skills regularly (while their opposite have no such issues). Conflict events should just be stopped until there is some semblance of balance, since magnagora cannot equal celest short of an exodus of demis form celest or a great many mags becoming active. If anything events should be more inward and force the city to work on goals rather than pitting it in a battle that will result in apathy and death.



Precisely, which means there is no solution to Narsrim and Dysolis, who kill indiscriminately. Events which put focus on Mag without pitting it against a vastly superior force may get people interested against without forcing people to fight, which most events seem to, or to suffer the consequences of an angry god.



As you say, this late in a game's life it hard to get that interest when the admin doesn't care that new ideas only benefit the two largest groups. Magnagora cannot destroy the star, but it can lose the necromentate, the concept of power being shielded only works in a balanced environment, I think the cities need to follow the example of the communes and remove the role of the star and necro or at least postpone it, as I'm sure you're aware it's not that difficult to repeat what you've done now people know it can be done, especially with denizens involved in spiking being killed to prevent its maintenance.

I need sleep now in anycase, it's 6am .

They do assist eachoter like the supernals do, and what Catarin meaned was make it easier to raise them, not harder.

The Demon Lords are significantly weaker than the Supernals. The fact that they assist doesn't mean much

Demigod Warriors can tank Nifilhema.

But that's neither here nor there.

I'm loving Gab's post

Hey, I showed you the scroll and asked if it was fine. You clearly advocated the rule

not that it was meant as a 24/7 thing anyway.

Please explain how they are weaker than the Supernals? I would really like to see some proof concerning this assertion, because I hear from the other side that some Supernals are weaker than their Demon Lord counterpart. So if you can show some proof, like affliction and damage comparisons, it would then hold more weight than just making the unsupported statement I've quoted.

Oh, and to answer your question Anisu, yes two of the Demon Lords do defend each other, just like two of the Supernals defend each other.

I, too, would be surprised if this were the case and would appreciate some hard data (or at least specific claims that I can check for veracity). If there is an imbalance on either side, I will certainly correct it. Consider me a skeptic until then, though.

As others said the idea would be to keep the time the same but make it easier (or at least less tedious) to raise them. You are also wrong about them not assisting.

If your concern is for the overall game, a one sided pacifying affect would be about the worst possible choice. Mag would still be no fun, and celest would just stop playing.

Without any conflict (mechanical, rp, event, whatever) the game will lose 90% of its purpose. The goal should be to ensure that more people can participate meaningfully in conflict while reducing things that lead to burnout. Anything that you can do that causes one group of players to do repetitive mindless tasks should be looked at. Things that cause dynamic fights between players should be encouraged.



I am at a bit of a lost here. The last few events focused entirely on celest. It was your choice (well perhaps not yours specifically, but your orgs) to involve yourself and deliberately inflict harm on one of the core celest beings. In fact Mag worked very hard to do so in a direct balanced (in theory) conflict with celest and you won. You did something far more unique, powerful, and longer lasting than just killing a supernal. In response you were attacked but all damage done is mechanically designed to be temporary (we can talk about how annoying it is designed to be though, I think the fact that one guild gets hit so hard is not a good idea, the pain and responsibility should be shared). So really you should be playing up IC how much you won. The death of a demon lord is just temporary, and while something you obviously do not want IC, you should still be able to point out that the branding is far worse than death and take pride in it.

From celests IC point of view we were were mislead multiple times by our supernals. So we were IC told to stop paying attention to them. Mag could do the exact same thing for the next few events, deliberately pull back from RP conflict so you have time to build up new ranks of active fighters. Catarin even offered to OOCly work on coming up with some kind of pause in conflict that could be implemented IC.

I understand that some players are frustrated, but instead of asking to make all conflict harder, or to have outside intervention to make one side artificially stronger, you should be trying to think of things that would make conflict more enjoyable.

What makes conflict a pain right now?
Why do 1-2 people cause so much damage?
Is escape from enemy territory too easy? Should more things require multiple players to pull off?
What types of mechanics could be put in place to make defense less tedious? Better warning systems?
What types of goals can attackers have that allow them to achieve something but at the same time do not make the defender feel like they are having no chance? I.E. Are there negative feedback cycles built into conflict right now that cause losers to keep losing? If so what are they and how can they be fixed?

And so on.

I think a few people from celest just ranted pure frustration after the last two events, but most tried to give constructive feedback after they calmed down. Some of this feedback has already made it into the game. I think the admin would be very willing to listen to such feedback if it was offered.

Here is a little story.

Once upon a time, there were three kids, let's call them; Magnum, Carl, and Selene.

So anyways, these three kids went to the same school and at the start of the school year Magnum went out of his way to beat up Carl any chance he could. In school hours, out of school hours, at the school, at the store down the street, you name it Magnum reveled in beating Carl up. Selene on the other hand was quite content to watch it all happen and jump back and forth helping one or the other (Selene was also known as the town bicycle. Everyone got a ride).

Then one day Magnum, decided it would beat up Selene too. Carl, not liking seeing girls get hit jumped in to help Selene, and between the two of them, they gave Magnum a black eye. Now, Magnum not being daunted by this just went back to beating up Carl. Selene aided Carl more and more often since being slapped around, and Magnum would take opportunities now and then to smack her again when Carl wasn't looking.

Months passed and eventually Carl got a few steroid injections, took some boxing lessons, and turned around on Magnum and beat him into the ground. Beat him black and blue. Beat him like a red headed step sister. Beat him... ok you get the point.

Now, Magnum, after this happened, ironically forgot the years of torment it had put Carl through and ran to the principal crying about how Carl was so unfair to him, that Carl was a bigger kid and Carl knew how to fight now and Carl was just bad for picking on someone smaller than him.

Morale of this story: What goes around comes around, and pissing off the town bicycle means you don't get a ride.

Yes, that's it exactly! While it is easy to point to other players and say that they clearly are the problem and go for easy solutions like nullifying conflict altogether, these are the kinds of questions that need to be asked and answered if the real goal is to come up some solutions that will make the game better and more enjoyable as a whole.

Well, yes. Attacking more than one org, ever, appears to gain some sort of permanent grudge. Given that, I suppose that Good City/ Dark City and Good Forest/ Dark Forest are apparently the only axes available, and any org that tries to switch focus off their predetermined conflict axis will be punished when the tide turns.

Did that about summarize it?

Until Selene was replaced with a new, more communal bicycle named Gloria, who developed an abused polygamist wife complex after Selene, Carl, and Magnum all took turns beating or maltreating her.

"Communal bicycle." A finer phrase has ne'er been turned. +1.

Man, and I thought you had hit rock bottom for metaphors after your "pissing into a bucket" thing!

Gregori wins.

EDIT: A little for Xavius too, for the Gloria thing

I was under the impression that was more of a Crow philosophy.

Hey, stay on topic, pal. We're talking about Celest and Magnagora, here.

G-L-O-R-I-A GLOOOOOOOOORIAAAAAAAAAAAA!