Chuchip isn't "lingering beyond his time" or something, he's just popping back briefly to give messages from beyond the grave, so it's ok. The Paavik ghosts, like most undead, are not.

The way I see it, there are spirits and there are undead. The undead are those which have died but have been transformed by outside powers, such as the Taint. Spirits are things that have died, but whilst still being around in an incorporeal form, they are there through natural means, for whatever reason.

This looks like a roundabout invocation of CHELP NOHARDQUESTIONS.

You win the thread.

This was something akin to the reasoning we were given. The Ancestors (Chuchip included), were still dead, they were not walking around playing at life. They were like the distant relatives that show up on your doorstep once a year for christmas, and then bugger back off to their own life.

Right. That's pretty much the explanation we were given by Lisaera ages ago. Of course, you could still argue that they're undead if you wanted, but there's a good enough reason to think they're not the same thing.

Yeah, there's still that arguement able to float around.

Hello Dark Spirits!

I don't see why people see the need for Celest to defend the merians. If roleplay is consistant, said merians wouldn't want said protections because ancient Celest up again and got them lost underneath the sea and they wouldn't trust "Celest" either.

Someone once told me that the Ur'dead don't want to be 'helped' by Magnagora either. Can someone confirm/deny?

Confirmed.

I think the administration just got tired of telling Magnagora to leave them alone though, since the ur'Guard just ignored them. There were some nice shouting matches between Murphy and the ur'Dead way back when.

Surely you aren't pointing this out to someone who has debated the connections of said orclach to current Ur'Guard... right?

I'm just saying, if it was true, which it appears to be, then it wouldn't make sense for the ur'dead to be given protection while merians aren't given any, if neither groups want it in the first place.

While it's not the argument I was after, I can easily point out a difference between "We are badass enough not to need to need your help" in the case of the Ur'Dead and the Ur'guard saying "But we want to be more like you." as opposed to "Leave us alone, you messed up our lives" from the merians and "But the light is so pretty" from Celest.

I don't see the difference, because in both cases the groups Celest/Magnagora are seeking to protect, Merians/Ur'Dead, do not desire it. We can all sit here and come up with any rationalization on why one is different from the other, but on a basic level both groups said no to their self-proclaimed protectors. Trying to state why one group’s claim is more valid than the other’s seems to be based more around a preference for one claiming group or the other, than it does of any true valid reasoning.

If someone from Mag was attacking me and someone from Glom showed up to kick their ass I would at the very least let them even if I still thought their emo failed.

Just because the merians might not like celest (I need to pay more attention to them, do they really hate celest? Thats kind of cool) does not mean they would not allow them to come to their aid. It would not be just celest either as are not both communes bared by treaty from killing them? I am not sure how many would bother to help them, but I still do not think it is such an illogical situation.

Mechanic wise I think each org should get one area outside of their city/tree to protect. I like the idea of some group more permanent than a village but less tied than a true loyal mob would be.

Celestians don't actually defend the Merians unless they want to kill someone with a flimsy RP excuse

I have a funny story about that too, where the ur'Guard GM went in, killed one of my GR1s for killing ur'Dead, so I...got myself enemied to the ur'Dead and spent most of the next twenty minutes taunting the bastard while killing ur'Dead. To his credit, he did eventually come back to die.

I catch anyone at the merians killing them, and I attack the person. So I suggest you not hunt them while I am around, because I will definitely use my flimsy RP excuse to kill you for it.

Is there a 'shaking in my boots' emote?

You hurt me when you left us to sleep with the fishies!