Allright!!! I can change my race again... Thanks Esty!!

On a side note 6414 forges and counting... still no uber waraxe

Only took me 80 hours, come on son.

God its not like forging has anything to do with skill. I'm so tired of you bragging like you're the most skillful forger the world has ever seen. God.

Stupid Desitrus.

I agree that high end warriors with fully runed up weapons (not to mention those with artifact helms) are just off the charts in offensive ability. With these stat changes, it means that demigod warriors will always do 10% more damage than their non-demigod counterparts. That's fine - they deserve a bonus.

I don't know how to solve this, but I think it's worth looking into. There's an uncanny trend of the large proportion of great Lusternian fighters being knights - and even of great non-Knight combatants 'going knight' after peaking out - I think there's a reason for this.

It would suggest that maximizing combat potential means going knight, and runing up. I agree that we should balance at the top level, but compared to knights, no other class gets as much utility out of demi (for example, the only stats that really matter for guardians are Con/resistances, and speed bonuses). As a result, demigods feel compelled to become Knights (or a disproportionate number of Knights choose to get demigod relative to other archetypes).

That's a good point. Are warriors doing too much damage? During this testing phase, I'm hoping to hear feedback and am certainly open to adjusting the curve--maybe it's fine as it is now or maybe it should only be 4% per level (or some other metric). I agree that 2k damage seems high but we also have to look at how often such a hit occurs, the health of the target, as well as what other skills are going on (puissance, etc.). I'm more interested in seeing some real numbers and testing by actual duals rather than anecdotal suppositions.

Yeah you also have to know if they have artifacts on the weapon... like elec/fire +stat ones, etc.

You are getting only one side of a thing. I mean I can behead some people with 3-4 hits while I might only hit desitrus for a max of 800 wounds in 4 hits.

elect/fire runes increase the racial damage

stat runes can make a 360 damage weapon into a 400 damage weapon (coal runes included)

So alot of exacts need to go into this testing before people just say it is too much.


Please make sure you at least note:
(If applicable)
Strength
Statistics on Weapon
Elemental runes on weapon
Armor on Opponent
Opponent with proofings? If so what?
Karma blessings
Any boosting skills being used in attack. aka Puissance, etc.

or

Int
If attacker is in a meld
Any artifacts that boost magic damage
Karma blessings (yes Int blessings count as do war)
Armor on opponent and stats of armor
Opponent with proofings? If so what?
Any boosting skills used?


This all at the VERY VERY least when you make reports about these types of things.

With all the obstacles a warrior has to overcome (see: Ildaudid's post in Lack of Rants 4), I don't feel that warrior damage is too high. There are only two or three warriors that really do a lot of damage, and they seem to have abnormally high stats that are well earned. Even with a few thousand credits invested in my weapons and 20 strength, I'm not doing so much damage to most people that they can't cope with it and keep their offense going.

The formula basically ends up looking something like this, I think (with current cap set at 0.6?):

(Damage Bonus) = (Strength - 12) / 12 * (Damage Cap Percentage)

I mean no offense by this at all but why are you not in a much better situation to answer this question? The max damage that a single round of combat can cause should be calculated from the code base. You can calculate this max damage in every race pairing if required, you can add in artifacts of all kinds, and so on. You could even take this one step further and calculate the healing rates of each race and compare the two over a 30 second window. The end result would be one big table full of numbers which you could then use to tweak the results to match your goals.

Obviously once you start to talk about multiple rounds of combat you get into the area where real world testing is needed (as hindering and other combat situations come into play). However the basic question of what is the max damage that a knight with X gear and Y strength can cause should not be a mystery.

Take a moment to consider how complicated the damage formulas are, and then factor into that how many possible permutations of race, weapon stats, artifacts, defenses, etc that there are, and you begin to understand why it's easier to just grab someone and hit them for a while.

This.

Anyway, if all these negative Knight changes were to happen, something should be done about all the defenses they have to go through and/or randomness experienced with the class.

oh god yeah the randomness.... its like chaos theory is factored into it somehow (and yea I don't know about math I am sure there is some logic to the randomness even when using maneuvers)

I disagree, as the players would have to match all of those same permutations to get the data. The players will have a much harder time doing this. Unless you broke the problem up and assigned tasks to groups of players you are either only going to get select portions of the data with lots of duplicated effort, or you will take a very long time to get the same data.

This is something that should be taken directly from the code. In fact the code should directly generate these numbers so whenever a tweak is made a report is generated showing the results.

Players should be used for testing multi round complex combat, not static "how much can be done in one round" types of questions.

Only one variable is being measured here, though. Shuyin is looking to see how damage scales with higher strength now, and it's no different from previous values given strength of 20 or lower. When you test something, you keep your conditions constant and alter one variable.

Either way, what you're asking for is more complicated than you'd think. Lots of factors, lots of code, lots of permutations, too many results to make any reasonable deductions.

Damage was broken before this change already, in some cases. Just need to find someone to test with.

Um. Those rapiers do have elemental runes on them, right?

When I first got my 180/xxx/175 set broadswords (totally unruned), I was only doing 420ish damage to a fully deffed druid with them per swing (at 15 STR). This was before all these recent changes.

Damage mod runes can make a HUGE difference, so it is important to note.

EDIT: The druid in question was also inept resilience

Which is why people should make sure to note the exact circumstances... like I posted earlier

@Ash.... ya want help testing ya know what clan to find me in

Aren't runed satisfieingly enough for me.

My discounts are criminal.

I'm a slasher... of prices.

I haven't got the numbers yet, but I feel this change is a bit too much. I suggest 5% from 12-20 and then lowering it to 2.5% from 21+.

Whoops yeah runed, but it shouldn't matter since we just want to see the rough increase in damage as strength increased