Yeah. I would love to see all the archetypes more or less equalized for bashing. I know there have been a fair number of people who have class changed just for the bashing. The pressure to do so should be lessened drastically.

Geb you mean damage as it is since the post and the tests right? Not reducing damage even more than it was to begin with?
Because yes right at the moment it is a bit high, but the scaling that needs work is in the higher end.

Because I really don't want Estarra being led down the road that she should actually end up nerfing damage more than it was 24 hours ago.

Also are there non superruned, non demi, normal warriors out there who can show things like damage at str's 14-18?

I think seeing the high end of the board sometimes leads to overnerfing than it does lead to proper balancing.


I know I would never think that Shuyin/Desi/Geb wounding/damage = avg warrior damage. But there are people who will read this and think that.

And on the lower end, warriors are already out damaged by most other orgs. They have to actually buy artifacts to even consider 2k damage, when a mage wouldn't need to think about buying an artifact to do the same thing. (And if they did consider a rune, they would need 1 rune not upwards of 2-4 per weapon/set of weapons) And of course a warrior misses.... alot more than non-warriors want to admit.

Trust me, give all guilds the same chance of missing that a normal warrior has, you will be back here ringing the bell saying you want the missing to go away again.

Then maybe 4.5% instead of 5%

You're really just going to have a hell of a time balancing warrior damage in general while those massive outliers like Shuyin, Desitrus, Geb, et al exist. I don't think it's really going to be possible to balance damage without screwing over the little warriors unless you tone down the amount artifact runes and to a lesser extent champ helms impact damage. (It's artifact runes that are the real problem; Demigod isn't really that huge a difference, the artifacts are what make them insane.)

Yeah that is true, but without artifact runes, warriors would not even be able to fight a cosmic and stand a chance 75% of the time.... I agree though there needs to be some type of middle ground.

When a demi bard can almost kill a demi warrior with a zap thingie (aka I watched Lendren and Rika funnin round one day) I am more skeered of those people than people who have to build up lots of wounds for an affliction that can be cured with allheale or any other thing ending in heal. (but that is just me ^^)

The problem is that the difference between the offense of a fully artied and unartied mage/guardian is pretty small (these differences mainly lie in tankiness), while the difference between a runed and unruned warrior is pretty astonishing. I believe in balancing at the top. You only overnerf if you lose perspective, ignoring the bottom. We could set a base of where we want things at the high end, and then just raise the lower end so that those people can contend and don't feel worthless in a fight.

Is the problem artifact runes, or is the problem drawdown/nightkiss and forging runes?

artifact runes, but the problem isnt that its just 1 artifact rune... its things like warriors dont have a karma blessing of str or dex, and they normally end up having to buy more than just one artie rune. Especially if they use more than one weapon. Bashing weapons, prc weapons, damage weapons.

If you took away the only perks of forging, and the only 2 skills geared to warriors in the communes that will still leave the arti runes, and desi, geb, nydekion arent in a commune. Hell I would move to stag/crow for the facepaints and such since why else would I want eq based skillset as a warrior? I cant shieldstun to keep people off while I wait for eq balance back or anything.

The only rune that really increases damage are the elemental runes. Drawdown plus dwarven runes can easily overcome the effect stat runes give at the top end. Also, the helm gives a boost far greater then either of them, so the helm is definitely not to a lesser degree. The tests you saw on Shuyin was him using rapiers for that damage (with the helm), not him using the broads.

Yeah, I'm just curious if the "insanity" comes from +15 to stats, or if it comes from +25/+35 to stats, or if it is like Geb said, and it only comes from the conversion of damage types.

i.e. should only +15 to stats be possible, and change the benfits of forging runes and drawdown/nightkiss and then buff up warrior damage in general to offset those rune requirements for combat.

In my oppinion, bashing should stay diverse. Some closes are better at bashing, some are better at PvP, that's how it has always been, one of the many interesting things of Lusty, no one is good at everything.

Cue Krellan - Quickening is the same as rushing, except for Equilibrium.

That's the thing Ash. There will always be other classes better at bashing because of rushing/putre/numen/quickening/multiple hits ectera ectera. But the only possible way equilibrium classes could compete would be by going mugwump because at that point, their base speed would be similar to warriors/monks. That's why equilibrium classes deserve a pure PvE attack that is fast and normalizes the base speed. After that. warriors still come out on top with tankiness and it depends on who makes better use of subsequent utility abilities.

Mage classes are better at lower levels, physical classes better at higher levels, too, don't forget that.

And I don't really see a need for normalized PvE attacks, classes who have worse PvE generally have better PvP. (Possible exception are warriors)

Nonsense. I call shenanigans!

I have read, here on these forums about mugwumps, merians, Furrikin, elfen and human spellcasters who bash just fine and dandy.

Better idea:

Make different classes better at bashing different things. That way, the end xp/hr is relatively the same, while each one has stuff they can deal with easier.

Uh-oh! Daganev has called Shenanigans.... (damn can't remember how Bob Brady handles this.... we need an officer bob brady to step up and conclude this)

They already are. Classes get difference resistances. For example, as monk I can handle physical relatively good. Warriors could handle physical exceptional, while mages with splendors and telekinetics can basically laugh at elemental and magic damage. Etc.

If the end numbers are upped, you're going to get even more rants about high-end warriors. There's no way around it.

Those numbers given above aren't even using lunge... add that in, and they go from deadly to omgAAAAGH!

If the end numbers are lowered, you'll bring the outliers into a more reasonable range, but normal warriors will be worse off.

As long as the outliers exist, it's not going to be possible to balance Warriors-- which is something we've been saying a while. However, while the outliers exist, buffing those outliers even further cannot really be justified. The outliers really need to be nerfed, while the base is raised... but that's pretty tough to do. If it's not done, though, do not buff the outliers.

Powerattacks aren't supposed to raise damage, afaik.

Lunge doesn't raise damage, but it sure does raise wounding (and those things are painful not solely due to the damage, but due to the wounding on top of them).