Ild, that doesn't make any sense. If you're talking about the power perspective, ascendants are only veeeeeeeeeeeeery minorly more powerful than demigods (if at all, due to the death slowness.) And you can't be talking about banning demigods from champion.

If you're talking about the "respect and admiration", well, I guess you're banning all previous leaders from other orgs, like banning previous CLs from GM, or champion, or whatever. Besides, the "respect and admiration" is part of the political process. Earning that is the "skill" of politics. You may as well ban people from champion for being too good at combat.

waaaa waaa waaa. You can miss, so what? In PvP that might be the fraction of a second that lets them recover. In PvE, so what? At most, you can say it might matter for health leeching creatures, but otherwise, the recovery is so dismal that it doesn't matter in PvE. Correct me if I'm wrong anyways.

Hey hey now, that was when you made me sit there and take it while you cursed me like a druken sailor while I shrugged off alot of those fetishes... Don't make me song like le suck I ain't great and yea after you got the timing down and I was allowed to fight back (which I think thats how it worked) you were able to do it again.... If we were in the basin I woulda ran for the hills hopefully before you could pull it off on me again

Say it.... say I ain't le suck.... don't leave me hangin out like that SON!



Corrected. It matters because we have so many randoms that are basically die rolls. Read the LoR4 thing... I dont want to rehash it, but adding in the % to miss along with the stancing/parrying/rebounding/missing venoms for locks etc for PvP it does matter some. In PvE especially if you have 1 weapon you and you miss.... ESPECIALLY with healthleech. But I have missed with a katana up to 6x (12 BM/BC swings) in a row (that time Roark rechecked it out). And I have missed with a katana 4x (that would be 8 BM/BC swings) in a row... the problem is Krellan, imagine if you missed 4x in a row when 3 mobs walked in on you. Your % chance of death increases greatly with each miss you make. That is why it matters. Trust me if you were bashing virgins and linking and started missing you would understand where warriors are coming from on that....

My biggest issue with the missing in PvE is even as a dwarf AL I still missed... I didn't notice a less chance of missing than when I was Human. Same as an Orclach PB.... the difference in the specced warrior races don't really seem to show at all, so advertising in the help "race" thing about NativeWeapons, although I am sure if tested over 5000 swings would show a small decrease in misses, it really isn't something significant at all right now to make people think I should choose that race to help me with PvE and definately doesn't show any help with anything like specc'd wounds or misses with PvP

edit- and also this is a question, not a statement. But there is an affliction either dizziness or confusion or something that I know one of the gars can give... it also increase the miss rate for PvE for warriors. Now does this same affliction cause any other guild to miss (besides a monk since they also miss in normal PvE)???

My responses are in bold.

See, I used you as an example because you don't suck. Deur?

Sorry I amendded it to all titans/demis/ascendeds.... and I was stating with the CL... All CL's are not allowed to hold office in their guild while they are CL's... Thus Daevos as Warlord could not also be the GC or the Ur'Guard.... it wasn't possible.

I originally said solely Ascendants which to me would have been a position of power like a CL would be. Now that could possibly be isolating the Ascendants unless they had some decent skills in that skillset. Which is why upon conferring with someone, I changed it to unfortunately include all 3 of what the basin sees as "high end" warriors.

The major fix needs to be the Champion helm needs reworking, but we already know what the opinion on that is. So instead, at least for now, if you make the GC's only allowed to be up to 98, it would help the whole high end of the spectrum people becoming too OP, etc.....

And trust me, don't you think I would rather not do this too. I am trying to think of an outside of the box resolution to something that isn't considered broken, but which alot of people say is broken.

What do you propose is done Nej? I mean if the helm is to stay the same, what do you think should be done?



Whoo hooo.... damn I don't have a whoo hoo cat... I do have one stuffed in a womans bra... I will use that somewhere later tonight and it will express my whoo hoo from this moment

If the helm is to stay the same then balance is screwed. I don't think the solution is to lash out at other people who don't deserve it, heh.

When you are done showering yourself with praise for no reason what so ever, please let me know and we can move on. I simply used you as an example because my encounter with you just sticks out in my mind. This has nothing to do with your skill level. None of this thread has anything to do with skill level. Not for cloth users nor for warriors. This thread is about the coded possible imbalances inherent in high end warriors. Your fragile egos have not been tarnished.



You are right. God smite me for wanting warriors to be balanced. I'm sorry you feel justified in flaming me non stop over totally unrelated issues. Gods just need to slap around a mortal from time to time, but what can you do? Can't argue with a god, eh?

edit: I mean this discussion. Not the whole thread.

It's cute that you try to draw attention from the valid points that I brought up. I mentioned several skills (which this game is balanced around omnitrans, if you didn't know) that you don't have transcendent in that will help you fight warriors. This is the same thing Geb was telling you and pertains directly to his ability to handle warriors. I'm sure your amazingly solid ego was able to pick those things out and you just chose to stick to ad hom attacks because those are second nature? Really, grow up.

Race changes people... Race changes!

Another question: With the advent of the racial changes set in place, could the domotheos creatures be looked at once more, by any chance? Personally, as a bard, I've had to struggle before, pre-change to manage Crown-level challenges without a TF, but now, even with a TF, it became nearly overwhelming with the amount of afflictions and damage these things are providing. Warriors of the same level are still managing just fine on their own, but I don't think that people need to rely on TF's or becoming a warrior -just- so that they can compete on the same playing field as warriors do. Could some of these afflictions or damage or something be reviewed once again, in light of the changes that have taken place now? Just to the point that other classes won't be steamrolled without making it ridiculously easy for warriors either?

The sip bonus removal on tae'dae hurts terribly. I used to be able to handle damage from three kephera monks without too much trouble, and now I'm having to KATA TERMINATE and run if a second one steps into the room. It's irritating because for all the race's PvP uselessness, tae'dae were really just excellent for bashing, especially in areas where mobs are aggressive or linked and in groups. Not so much right now.

Eq/bal bonuses and penalties still matter too much for tae'dae to really be viable PvP combatants under the current system of afflicting your enemies to death. I haven't thoroughly tested the strength/damage modifications yet, but unless it's become a very real concern that the big bear is going to rip off the faeling's head within two or three forms, I think that tae'dae will still be underpowered in PvP even if we regain the sip bonus. As is, the race is just hopeless.

Can tae'dae have the sip bonus back so we can at least be good at bashing again?

The sole reason I was able to do that on time was because of speed bonuses allowing me to get in and out quickly enough and recovering health. Higher health means taking longer to recover as well. Which is why I stress the need for a new attack for wiccans, guardians, mages, and druids that can only be used PvE

...no idea how that correlates to me since I'm a bard, but as long as we get desirable results. -thumbsup- Anyway, yes, they're painful, no, I don't know how other classes besides warriors will fare but I'm hoping it won't be a total shut out.

I have come to realise that there are only two Taurian players around. Yes, only two - Desdemona and Tharruk. So I would like to make a suggestion to make this race more appealing: make the +2 STR bonus from enrage not weighted, that way people will find a reason to enrage themselves, because as it was in the past, when I was a Taurian, there was almost no difference in terms of damage, and lashing out at other people far outweight the small damage boost. In my opinion this will make them more attractive for players because of the 10% damage boost (or whatever will be because of the +2 STR), compensating to a small degree for the low INT and CHA, and the magic weakness, which make the Taurians vulnerable to mana or ego instakills.

It was originally about the tests players were making after the racial changes went live. I'm mainly to blame, kinda derailed it into a warrior thread. Sowwy


P.S.: I'm not forgetting about you caster guys, I only talk about warrior/strength cos that's what I know

Why can't the monk GC artifact be OP too? I've heard it does absolutely nothing except rescue people, though I still don't have mine so it's been hard to test.

Whats with all the flaming and personal attacks people? Lets keep to points, facts, and -some- opinions (which should be provable or disprovable generally or else just dont matter).

Forren was tanky, had grand curing, and his demesne unlike geos healed and cured him to help. Geos wont heal and cure them, its more offensive but that doesnt help if you cant take a swing at that advantage for survival reasons.

Desitrus and Geb hit hard, when they use damage.. the problem is partially damage and more so the fact you get wounds. You can apply for wounds perhaps but then your health will get low.. if you sip then your afflictions get worse. The balance you have to rely on is stalling them to get time to heal. Its not a good way to have combat since you dont win by stalling but its just how its handled.

Ideally how to handle warriors and races:
+Str should have a major factor on damage and not as high of one on wounds
+Dex should have a higher factor on wounds
+Warrior weapons (for which Roark will smite me) should be readdressed such that a high str race with high damage weapons will reliably cause large amounts of damage and dismal wounds. While wounders should tend to do more wounds and less damage than current. AKA formula adjustments.
+Stun needs to play less of a factor. Being able to get a second hit before stun wears off is a huge effect since they didnt get to sip/apply after the first hit. That has more of an influence than it should since its not really something you can fix without changing size.

Yes these would have their own effects, such as aslaran and faeling being good wounders and lower damagers (oh no.. so horrible?) but at the same time tae'dae could look at serious damage kills which not so much expecting to kill off wounds. They COULD build wounds because of the amount of damage, which you would need cure, but it would be smaller than now. As would damage from high dex races. If you want to fix warriors address the formulas and stats that result in extremes in power. Yes loboshigaru and Krokani would make fairly scary warriors under this, which is soemthing that may or may not need to be addressed.

Why do warriors do so well against robes?

+Robes mean they can get really high wounds to get nasty afflictions fast (tendons, pinlegs, slitthroat, etc)
+Only tailors can handle this better than most.. one suggestion has been to make chainmail higher than greatrobes since its non proofable
+If you are stunned you cant stop them as well. Historically the best way to deal with them has been hindering which means less when they instantly writhe or take little to no stun based on their target.

One way to handle this is to stall and try to buy time to heal. However this is much like the inquisition issue, the only way to prevent or help it is to run or stall like mad. You cannot stall so if they pull 2 hits that really hurt you are stuck giivng up your influence to slow them down. If they have to focus more on something and werent as bad then it would be better.

Yes I am a Nihilist, so I can generally hinder loads better than a mage (even a telepath whoring peace and paralysis etc) could. Bards rely on dodge and illusoryself which is actually one of the best ways to tank damage, since it means less direct threat to themselves. Sometimes based on size and opponents spec you could actually be beaten with little else you could do.

Examples:
Stunned to death, grapple whored, mass balance loss stacking, omni prone, etc.

Once we flesh out combat to no longer have auto I wins (which we tend to be working on) and remove the instantly crippled conditions (double hemiplegy every 3s kinda things) then we will be better off. Until then place your suggestions on what can be done and how to handle it.

P.S.

<3 Roark.. dont hurt me

The sword fighter of technique, versus the sword fighter of sheer burliness. I appreciate the contrast. Oh, and I also like the idea.

Also magic damage can vary a bit.

Location effects can change it.

Example:
+In aqua flood cold damage is boosted, fire damage is reduced
+Believe same kind of effects depend on the terrain as well.