Interesting.

It is my understanding that the only thing maneuvers actually do is trim out lesser wounds, not increase the actual chances of getting wounds. In the arena of swings, it certainly doesn't change the chance to hit body parts not relating to the one you actually want. IE, if I only put slit throat and behead on something, it doesn't modify the chance to hit chest with hack down.

I would be happy to envoy that maneuvers increase chances like this, but the last time I envoyed something to do with base warrior mechanics I was told not to because the code is too touchy. The exact statement was something about roark killing me. And that one was just getting rid of base miss rate.

I make grandstanding statements because that is all that I'm left with. Fifteen pages ago I set out the same tests and asked offhandedly if we could have the roundabout figure for how much dexterity affects proc (Edit: process of special function IE wound affliction, EQ term) rates. Having been told no, all I have to go on are these inconclusive tests and gut feelings. Should I test this with one thousand swings? That seems a little excessive. On the tests that I did do where I made geb stand around while pounding his legs, those were my results.

I am quite happy to go back and swing on him 200 times, but is anyone going to listen to the results?

Edit: Given the previous ninja'ing, I can only say "Are you serious?", because all of my attacks are maneuvers. The ones I was using on geb say this:

So now that most races have gotten some sort of boost, how about them furrikin?

I would, even though I don't matter and probably won't comment on them!

Desi, you know way more about what is going on than I do, so don't take this as trying to make an argument against dwarves, but...

At what point do you feel it would be a fair trade off, while still giving some reason to play races with high dex, but lower strength, which, by what I can get from your posts, should mean that they get afflictions easier, but do much less damage?

Aslaran have a base strength of 12, but dex of 16, for example. With the changes, they're going to not be relatively viable when looking for raw damage, but they should make for fine affliction warriors, right?

So, that seems appropriate... so why isn't the reverse appropriate? Not being viable as a wound-centered warrior, but being a good damager? Especially if the damager is tough enough not to have to rely on afflicting thier target as a form of defense, like I usually do?

Right now, I think only Krokani fall into the category of having good strength, good dex, good constitution, and good defences (and a weapon specialization on top of that). Most of the others seem to lean towards one or the other. Maybe reduce Krokani a bit, and push others towards either damage or wounding?

Mostly because warriors have no way to buff their dexterity? What aslaran actually has a strength of twelve if trans skills are assumed? I can pump up +4 str after weighting as any race, I certainly can't say the same for dexterity. I realize you are still on this "aslarans got the heavy handed nerf bat", and while I agree, what is the point of trying to make everyone suffer the same fate?

There is no damage dealing warrior like in your description. To be perfectly honest, I do more unmitigated raw damage as an aslaran because I can double tap in stun with my artifacted waraxe and they can't keep up with sipping. I also get double taps with my wounding axe even on sizes of 18.

You could always find a friendly local astrologer when they have a positive antler sphere. *chin*

And all this complaining! All the dwarves and orclach are having their buff dex parties while tae'dae stares in from the outside with his still low dex. Shame!

I would like to suggest to the community that you provide racial spc packs for bards and monks if you think it is possible, instead of just saying "try harder"

(Dwarves didn't get one! They are sitting on the tae'dae shoulders having a big cry.)

What Desi said and one other thing. Aslarans are not a warrior weapon spec race.... But Dwarves are a weapon spec race. And I agree dwarf have great benefits to being one... and they are awesome to bash with. But that is where it stops. Like Desitrus said about the knockdowns, most of us use maneuvers already and watching him get a knockdown 1/5 times as the AL spec race and then seeing him get a knockdown 3/5 times as a non AL spec race, the whole time using only maneuvers to test. It is a little depressing. I mean it makes you wonder how bad it might be if he wasn't using maneuvers during his test.

I like Dwarves for bashing, but I can't see myself staying one if I need to participate in PvP at this point in time. I would probably go aslaran or human to be more balanced in both PvE and PvP instead of being only feasable in PvE.

Oops. That's what I get for posting not long after waking up. Perhaps if the dwarves were dumbed down a bit, they could get some more dex then.

So it the only problem the rate of afflictions then? So the specialization helps to make bigger wounding "numbers", but the numbers don't matter because the affliction itself never lands?

What if the axelord dealie increased raw damage instead of precision? How much of an increase would it need to make dwarven axelords viable as damage fighters?

The more wounds, the more chance of afflicting, so saying it doesn't help really isn't true.

How about some Taurian buffs pwease?

Damage warriors haven't truly been around for a while. Most everyone is a wounding warrior. Especially after they took away pre-nerf weapons. And I am not sure how you could truly remake the damage warrior again. Yea it won't be too terrible to damage kill a cloth wearer, but a damage warrior would need to be able to hit around 1000 damage on a plate warrior too. Which would probably end up making these kinds of warriors insane when hitting a cloth user. Since they would have to be based on non artied warriors.

The problem isnt the rate of speed of afflictions, it is the consitancy to get afflictions. By using maneuvers you narrow down the affliction list by only putting in afflictions you want for that maneuver. Now if you don't "roll" that affliction/s when you attack with a maneuver you end up with no affliction.

So take a "knockdown" maneuver, as Desi pointed out. He would attack with it and 1/5 times would the die roll hit the affliction he has chosen for that maneuver. 4/5 times he did nothing more that hit the leg with an axe doing reg wounds/damage but no affliction. And the sad thing is you expect when a leg is up to heavy wounds, that you would have a much much higher chance to afflict the leg with an affliction that only needs low wounds on it to actually hit more than not hit, especially with a maneuver set for a low wound affliction.

Now this you could write off as feasable if it wasn't happening to the one race that claims to be the Axelord specialists. If there was someway to either make maneuvers give the specialized warriors a much higher chance to get the afflictions they have in the maneuver when the opponent is at the needed or higher than needed wound levels that would balance out the low end dexterity some. It would make an AL use maneuvers alot more than not use them so they can actually hit the wounds they want. But at least they would know that by using maneuvers they had a much better % chance to hit the leg with a low wound affliction when that leg is well above the low wound range, than a non spec race already appears to do.


If they made the specialization race of Axelords be Aslarans, I would go Aslaran and not look back, because I wouldn't need to worry about missing maneuver attacks that much anymore. The aslaran race has had some big nerfs to it, but all of them can be worked around more than the whole dwarf afflicting 1/5 times while someone else will afflict 3/5 times. It is too much for a two-handed weapon user to miss afflictions that often. At least if this was happening to a BC or BM they have 2 weapons to swing with so they have a chance to attack more... while the ALs have 1 weapon and if they nick the thigh 80% of the time while achieving the proper affliction 20% of the time, it really really slows down the offense of a AL. IMO

Loboshigarus could always use some wuvvin'. How about letting them have scent?

The changes to Kephera/Illithoid have been very nice, and the two races are perfect for monks now. There is simply one more change needed for Illithoid:

The inflated ego needs to -not- drain when the player logs off. One has to spend a good 20-30 minutes hunting to get one's ego up to an acceptable rate (for debating/influencing). This is fine as this is how it's obviously meant to be. The annoying portion is that if I log on during a village revolt, I need to spend my time hunting instead of being useful in any way because I have to hunt. Inflated ego should stay through log-out; if this needs to be balanced, then speed up the normal drain.

And possibly -2 to intelligence or something.

Agreed. That said, I have played around with dwarves, and I certainly do notice an extra hindrance on achieving wounding afflictions because of the low dex (this is with +2 dex as a demigod.. I empathize with the 10 dex dwarves).

PS, any chance the AL/PB dwarves will get the same bonus as the one handers for native precision?

PPS Alcohol tolerance is pretty cool.

Yea Zar, I didn't see the end of that page before the new one began... I am dropping the issue and just using them to bash when I have harmony + autumn and harvest up, then switch back to human or something else from now on for anything that requires me to fight other players.

I just need to decide if I should go ahead and delete my posts since that announcement or not though.

Plus, nerf their int and make illdrain boost mana too.


On the topic of spec races, I was thinking:
The original three guilds of Seren, Celest and Mag have been around a loooooooong time. The elfen, merians and viscanti have been in the guild and used their skills for a loooooooong time. So they 'got used to them' (I'm sure that could be put better). Glomdoring has not been around that long, but shadow fae were explained with that event where Rowena (undead elfen) seduced Maeve's consort (a fae) and gave birth to twin shadow fae. On the other hand, bards and monks are new. None of the for spec races have used their skills for a long time. So them not having spec races actually makes sense to me.


EDIT: if they decide to take bard specs away, may I suggest...native instruments.
Elfen bards who choose the Wildarrane specialization can play more .
Similarly for for merians, viscanti and faelings.