How high end of a mob are you talking about? I don't have any hard numbers or anything, but I can tell you that I could clear the lower level of the Catacombs significantly faster as a level 94 Paladin than as a level 94 Celestine with a symbol.

So, on another racial note.
Mugwump > Cantor Merian?

p nectrotroph
A foul necrotroph does not even register your presence as a threat.

This level.

Anyways, I'm attacking at about 2.2s with 285 speed weapons. With absolutely no misses at all, there's a 2.4 second difference between destruction and weapons. 61.6 seconds for weapons, 64 seconds for destruction. Even two misses, and Destruction's faster, based on pure damage. There will always be an average greater than two misses with that number of attacks on this level of mob. Just the raw miss rate is higher, not counting dodges.

And that's if Destruction is actually 16-- it may be 15 or 14. I'm having trouble getting an accurate number on it due to crits.

Crits do change the picture a bit, but we're talking raw damage at the moment as far as I'm aware.

Please correct me if I've made the wrong assumption about destruction, but I think it's saying a lot if you can kill something with weapons about as fast as you can with a special ascendant bashing attack that costs essence.

I don't think Destruction's all that special any more. It used to be pretty quick, but now it seems locked at 4s (even with a Faeling balance bonus), and I do have a 15% bonus to my weapons. Thus, other races without that 15% bonus wouldn't be killing as fast with weapons.

Keep in mind that there are no other non-Warrior ascendants with a high enough essence stockpile to actually compare Destruction to their normal attacks, but I don't really think it's all that amazing in comparison to other similar skills at this point.

Edit: Hrm. Actually, it's looking like Destruction is more like a 3.2 or so second recovery... not sure why I thought it was more. Okay, so its advantage is the speed bonus. 3.2s (versus 3.5 or so without Faeling?), at 16 hits, is 51.2 seconds. This is a significant amount faster than weapons, but the essence use still makes other attacks preferable IMO.

So, back to Live Racial Testing.

Elfen Lord versus Shadowlord.

I'm not entirely sure what you want. I've done testing of the numbers, I've gathered them, I've posted them for you. There is nothing theoretical about what I've posted. There is a significant imbalance in wounding/damage over time, which is not countered by the extra affliction speed due to the fact that afflictions are based on that very wounding.

Higher strength races should have more damage/wounding over time than lower strength but higher speed races. The difference should not be as large as it is. There is a +15% speed bonus for level 3 balance, and a +25% damage/wounding bonus for 13->18 strength. Simply tightening the curve so it's a +20% bonus for that range, *or* adding 1 strength to Shadowlords, fixes the issue. There will still be a higher damage/wounding over time for the higher strength races.

I really don't care if it's hardcoded so that Shadowlord Demigods only get +1 strength. I'm fine with my 15. However, non-Demi Shadowlords do need to be pulled up due to both the loss of speed and the larger effect of strength. The affliction rate has been significantly lowered even if the strength is pulled up.

PS - Ceren you do know that spec races have been changed. They do NOT have a natural ability to use the weapon better in bashing (so basically they have the same miss rate as anything else now)

Dwarf: Miss 30 // Hits 236 // Total Crits 72 // -------- Miss % = 12%


This is just from maybe a quick hour I might get a better miss rate if I bashed more... but 12% miss rate is very high especially for a specc'd warrior race.


VOTE: No on magical NOMISS upgrades

When I was talking about missing I was talking about all warriors, so I don't see what specialized races have to do with it.

FYI You guys broke Viscanti specialisations. As a Master Viscanti, I have base viscanti stats.

Spec races before the change they just made to them used to be a hair more precise in bashing (meaning, less misses)... before the change I was on avg 3-6% miss rate.... but after the change I am at 12% and I am in a spec race... which is what I was saying..

Basically the whole point is.... Magic attacks need to miss if they are buffed up in damage. Warriors spends days upon days to get good weapons to bash with, they miss all the time and the do less damage than a magical attack does now. So why in the world would anyone agree to beef up magical attacks without giving them the chance to miss or rebound back onto themselves?

When I see a mage sit in a magical room enchanting their staff for 2 RL days. Then go out and bash with it, and miss 12% of all attacks made. And when they hit something it takes more than 1 WSC to kill it.... Then maybe then would I ever sit back and think that magical damage should be raised. But until then, I am completely against it, and I will most likely stay that way.

This seemed like the place to post this so here it goes.

Shadowsinger Faeling (Shadowbeat)
-1 strength
-1 size
+1 intelligence
+1 charisma

+1 int and +1 charisma is not worth 9 constitution, I already die to Sojiro in 2 hits, you want it to be in a flick of his thumb?

as a bard if you die to anyone in two hits you either have no lessons spent or you don't know the syntax to use illusoryself. I remember when fighting a warrior i had like an 80% change to not take a hit at all.

On another note I dont think giving faelings more cha, is a good thing.

You do know that Illusoryself doesn't flare all the time right?

It's at least 50%

You do know that you are arguing with me over possibly 4 hits at most IF illusoryself was lucky enough to flare, right?

Not sure what class Sojiro is but getting hit 50% of the time should be good enough for health pot to refill. If it isn't your fighting out of your league.

Would being Seasinger Merian even be worth it?

Do you even know what 9 constitution health looks like? stop posting.. honestly...

It looks like 10 - 1, but you get a sip bonus. You won't notice a difference.

Talking to envoys is a lot easier said then done. Especially when they disagree with you or are inactive for your guild or lack of or they are just more concerned with other things in general. But I'll give it a try.