Oh I didn't mean to imply that there wouldn't be any effect whatsoever between 12-20. Of course not! Just that there'd be a significant increase in damage at higher STR/INT. As it should be. With how it scaled previously, before any new changes, high STR for a warrior didn't seem to matter much, in terms of wounds or damage output. Which is why I didn't quite understand the complaint about titan/demigod warriors, but I digress.

There should be a linear increase in damage per point of strength/intelligence until 20 where the increase per point becomes less and less. I suggest a minimal 5% per point from 12 to 20 (40% difference between 12 and 20). From 21-25 it starts out at 3% per point and decreases to 1% at 25.

Likewise, if resistances aren’t softened then they are the selling point of what determines a powerful race from a mediocre race. As noted earlier, a high resistance race coupled with a high dmp resistant guild can achieve borderline immunity to a given damage type (A Furrikin Celestine with splendor robes and Transcendent magic can reach around an 80% resistance to magical damage).

I think resistances account for a huge problem as far as combat balance goes too. I think damage -should- be an option to kill, and it is never going to be when someone can supplement their guild resistances up to 30% with racial resistances. Either resistances should be softened -or- resistances should be calculated as DMP.

Edit: 40% might be too high. I'm interested in thoughts on it, but.. 25% is a bit low.

No one wants to test strength/damage/wounds with me.

EDIT: Ok, this is weird:

Testing on myself with the same health all times.

12 str: 259 damage 274 wounds
13 str: 255 damage 269 wounds
14 str: 266 damage 281 wounds

I'll be your punching bag


@Malicia & Estarra: If you lower racial resistances, some races will lose their main selling points. Unless the weakening is compensated by increases to Con or other key stats to the race, you'd just be nerfing races who were specifically designed to be tougher than other races. As for the furrikin example, that's only one SPECIFIC example of how resistances can be exploited by people who know what they're doing. That's like saying nerf warriors because Demigod warriors deal too much damage or lolpinleg in one combo. Not all of us are exactly like that individual example.




That is pretty weird

Whatever race the second one was may have had blunt resist or the first had a vuln or something.

Or there are 2 weapons involved with slightly different stats. One was used twice, the other once.

Was nerfing the effects of slower balance/eq really enough to justify junking the entire Tae'dae elixir bonus? They're going to get absolutely ruined by mana kills.

Testing on yourself via anatine/clumsiness isn't valid. I recall Morgfyre saying that clumsiness skewed the results of attacks, and I'm guessing it did so for the worst.

According to Ashteru, he can cope with the elixir loss, but he says the amount he sips for now is pitiful. Especially when you consider that he usually hunts linked Astrals all day long, you can see how he'd miss the extra sippage.

What? I haven't been Tae'dae since the changes.

But nontheless, the siploss basically makes them unuseable.

But I remember talking to you right after the elixir change went live and you were upset about it!

...no...

I remember talking with you, and telling you that that change screws Tae, but nothing else.

Right idea, you don't do full damage to yourself.

My poor brain is fried and imagining things. It's only Sunday and I still have four more days of finals

You already two-shot half the basin... you want people to be taking MORE damage? DMP has already taken care of resistances being absurd. There's no need to normalize resistances and make races worse off. The problem is not resistances, but it IS the fact that stats are making high-stat races rather meaningless. I think upping the % damage frm 12-22 is good. Maybe instead of 25% make it 35% or something.

Again, nerfing racial resistances is a bad idea and will not fix the problem inherent with stat curves

Alright. Racial resistances are fine. Why are they even being considered for a change? Is there a phantom furrikin celestine running around beating up all the bards? It's not broken, stop trying to fix it. Focus on the real issues like mugwumps and tae'daes being rather useless with these changes and the scaling issues with warriors being exactly the opposite of what some are suggesting. If I have deal with increased wounds and damage from the high end warriors, I will just give up all together.

I smell ulterior motives.

I blame Malicia for her ultimately good intentions but bad core logic and Estarra for being an open minded mother-figure who only wants the best for us (not that it's a BAD thing).

Eh, when people are saying that these changes move into the realm of "choose races for resists instead of anything else, because nothing else matters," it's not exactly bad core logic to try and bring things in line a bit (open some things up, tighten some others, for balance). Is it the right solution? Who knows... but it is pretty obvious that with the current setup, racial resistances have a greater impact on a character's ability to do well than other racial attributes (excepting very low stats).

Well, I'm sure my voice counts for little as I hardly play and never fight, but... I'll go ahead and suggest that Tae'dae either retain a lvl 1 sip boost, at least, or have their balance/eq penalty reduced to lvl 2, or they get 2 points added to their intelligence. I just want to see the big guys become playable at long last. D:

Do you promise?
Care to explain the logic or fault in some of the tests I've performed? At 17 STR, I was dealing 926 damage (276 wounds) to a robed target, with trans resilience. Was using a single sword, 185 dmg and electric rune. Now, I'm not saying that's bad. You sacrifice deepwound damage, when you're going for straight health damage. I won't even mention the accuracy issues and an entire skillset dedicated to preventing warrior attacks and other hindering methods. Irrelevant for the time being. At 22 STR, I dealt 1047 damage (313 wounds) to the same target. A difference of 121 dmg and 31 deepwounds. As others have stated, it would seem that a speed warrior with around 15-17 STR won't do so bad. High dex and speed will matter most. I guess more involved tests will have to be performed. I'm willing, once I snag a few people and am not feeling lazy.

So my question is: Given a speed advantage, at what point do you
outpace your opponent?

And does the new speed advantage have significant value in combat right now?
Lets take the following situation.

Each level of racial bonus to Balance/Equilibrium gives a 4% increase to speed
(New Value, Estarra)

Mugwump
Equi Advantage Lv3 =12% Faster

Human
Basal Speed = 0% faster


Lets assume both individuals are using attacks that take the same amount of equilibrium,
have no defenses, and stand in the same room just whaling on each other.

Lets also assume the attack each takes 1 “turn” of equilibrium and they immediately start the next attack when equilibrium is available.

Thus each attack will take 1 turn for a human to recover from and 0.88 of a turn (speed in turns = 1 turn - .12 from speed bonus) for the mugwump to recover.

So



*Actions obtained by (Turn number/Time for each attack) so for wump 1/0.88 = 1.14 turns

So its only by turn 8 that the wump outpaces the human obtaining two actions before the human’s one.

Given that the wump has minimal con (10) I’d argue that the wump won’t even survive this scenario to see the speed advantage pay off.

Another advantage to having Lv 3 bonus to speed is that your action #2 will be faster than your opponent (assuming no lag, etc). However is that really worth it unless the wump CONSISTENTLY uses an affliction that forces the opponent to consume equilibrium (ie not attack and lose an action)?

For sake of the argument…

Mugwump
Equi Advantage Lv3 =12% Faster

Tae’dae
Equil Disadvantage Lv3 = 12% slower ( or an action takes 112% the time of normal, OR one action takes 124% of a wump)




If my numbers are correct after the Tae has completed one action the wump will have completed 1.31, and on the Tae’s FOURTH action the wump will have out paced him with 5.26 actions completed.*

*calculated by saying relative to a Tae’dae a wump has a %24 speed advantage so
every action of a Tae/0.76 (or 1.00-.24 = 0.76) gives us the actions taken by the wump.

THE POINT

If a lv3 equilibrium bonus is the wumps defining characteristic, they are underpowered as it is and with their low con (10) chances
are will NOT survive combat long enough to see their speed actually make a difference.

To fix this I suggest either:

1) Make them more survivable with a boost in Con or physical resistances (lv 2 cutting resistance?)
2) Make wumps more like a "glass cannon" and significantly boost their intelligence or other forms of damage output.

Edit: Updated.