Desitrus2008-05-03 18:39:27
QUOTE(Celina @ May 3 2008, 01:33 PM) 508578
Sheesh. Testy much? Learn when to stop reading.
Malarious, whether you like it or not, has a valid point. Quickened amissio's can be out sipped. No sparkles or scrolls, against an target with average health/mana like Talkan. Even with addiction, malarious is outsipping amissio. This isn't like your axe that can easily outpace wounds and curing of most cloth users (if not all cloth users.) Nor are your "previos experiences" as a Nihilist going to hold much water. Curing has improved drastically even since I've started playing, so they've certainly improved since you were a Nihilist. Aeon is not reliable. If you can't aeon someone, how do you expect to kill them with a mana kill. If you can't kill them with a mana kill, your other options are...soulless and damage. Guardian damage is pretty tankable, so that leaves soulless for any non knights. That dosen't sound too fair to me.
Malarious, whether you like it or not, has a valid point. Quickened amissio's can be out sipped. No sparkles or scrolls, against an target with average health/mana like Talkan. Even with addiction, malarious is outsipping amissio. This isn't like your axe that can easily outpace wounds and curing of most cloth users (if not all cloth users.) Nor are your "previos experiences" as a Nihilist going to hold much water. Curing has improved drastically even since I've started playing, so they've certainly improved since you were a Nihilist. Aeon is not reliable. If you can't aeon someone, how do you expect to kill them with a mana kill. If you can't kill them with a mana kill, your other options are...soulless and damage. Guardian damage is pretty tankable, so that leaves soulless for any non knights. That dosen't sound too fair to me.
1. Stop using Nifilheima Symbol
2. I changed from Nihilist two weeks ago
3. Curing hasn't improved from my last wrack kill three weeks ago
4. I'm not using a newbie weapon and an adept skill and just holding down jab chest
5. If a 15% magic rune affects amissio, you'd need it for the actual test to be anywhere near comparable to that axe, which did NOT outpace sipping pre-runes
6. Darksilver is amazing and can be used for sleeplocks
7. Dominate is amazing period if you have a brain
8. Why should mana kills be a viable option on heavy mana targets? Damage isn't an option for me on cloth targets with resists and high health. Are you saying I need a damage buff?
9. Look at what you're saying for ten seconds. He is not on full offense, he is not trying anything other than quickened amissio spam. This is really supposed to kill anyone? If that's the line you are balancing around, you will have a lot of rebalancing to do so other guilds can have it this easy.
Unknown2008-05-03 18:43:58
QUOTE(Desitrus @ May 3 2008, 02:39 PM) 508583
1. Stop using Nifilheima Symbol
2. I changed from Nihilist two weeks ago
3. Curing hasn't improved from my last wrack kill three weeks ago
4. I'm not using a newbie weapon and an adept skill and just holding down jab chest
5. If a 15% magic rune affects amissio, you'd need it for the actual test to be anywhere near comparable to that axe, which did NOT outpace sipping pre-runes
6. Darksilver is amazing and can be used for sleeplocks
7. Dominate is amazing period if you have a brain
8. Why should mana kills be a viable option on heavy mana targets? Damage isn't an option for me on cloth targets with resists and high health. Are you saying I need a damage buff?
9. Look at what you're saying for ten seconds. He is not on full offense, he is not trying anything other than quickened amissio spam. This is really supposed to kill anyone? If that's the line you are balancing around, you will have a lot of rebalancing to do so other guilds can have it this easy.
2. I changed from Nihilist two weeks ago
3. Curing hasn't improved from my last wrack kill three weeks ago
4. I'm not using a newbie weapon and an adept skill and just holding down jab chest
5. If a 15% magic rune affects amissio, you'd need it for the actual test to be anywhere near comparable to that axe, which did NOT outpace sipping pre-runes
6. Darksilver is amazing and can be used for sleeplocks
7. Dominate is amazing period if you have a brain
8. Why should mana kills be a viable option on heavy mana targets? Damage isn't an option for me on cloth targets with resists and high health. Are you saying I need a damage buff?
9. Look at what you're saying for ten seconds. He is not on full offense, he is not trying anything other than quickened amissio spam. This is really supposed to kill anyone? If that's the line you are balancing around, you will have a lot of rebalancing to do so other guilds can have it this easy.
Your points are pretty silly. If with no hinderence, you can't even cause someone to eat sparklberry or read a healing scroll one time, it will be impossible in a real fight. The standard for testing mana drain is no offense, no passive straight drain when it comes to cosmic guardians. This is basic knowledge. If you can't do it in an ideal situation, you won't be able to do it in a fight.
Malarious2008-05-03 18:46:44
@Desitrus:
It’s not so much that Quicken Amissio didn’t shoot Talkan down to below half mana, it’s that WITH JUST mana potion he was able to stay above 80%. I’m not suggesting Quicken Amissio should work by itself. I’m suggesting that Quicken Amissio should at least require mana potion, sparkleberry, and healing scroll to override.
There is a substantial difference there. At no point in this thread have I suggested Quicken/Amissio should overcome curing potential standing still. I have suggested that its too weak because curing potential exceeds Quicken/Amissio by a ridiculous amount
It’s not so much that Quicken Amissio didn’t shoot Talkan down to below half mana, it’s that WITH JUST mana potion he was able to stay above 80%. I’m not suggesting Quicken Amissio should work by itself. I’m suggesting that Quicken Amissio should at least require mana potion, sparkleberry, and healing scroll to override.
There is a substantial difference there. At no point in this thread have I suggested Quicken/Amissio should overcome curing potential standing still. I have suggested that its too weak because curing potential exceeds Quicken/Amissio by a ridiculous amount
Desitrus2008-05-03 18:49:02
QUOTE(talkans @ May 3 2008, 01:43 PM) 508586
Your points are pretty silly. If with no hinderence, you can't even cause someone to eat sparklberry or read a healing scroll one time, it will be impossible in a real fight. The standard for testing mana drain is no offense, no passive straight drain when it comes to cosmic guardians. This is basic knowledge. If you can't do it in an ideal situation, you won't be able to do it in a fight.
And we're saying that the ideal situation is, in fact, during a full-on offense, not leaving someone free to cure. Look, if Shuyin turns off parry/stance/rebounding and I hammer his chest with jabs WITH the artifacted axe, I will never get him above medium wounds or kill him with damage. Thus by this logic, under my optimal conditions, I need a damage upgrade.
What do you want? Manamindblast? Supermanasplosion? Develop your skillsets to supplement the draining if need be. This is why monks are getting the speed nerf bat, or did you miss that? Overall, people think it is wrong if you hit a speed increase skill and "bowl people over".
Unknown2008-05-03 18:53:27
QUOTE(Desitrus @ May 3 2008, 02:49 PM) 508592
And we're saying that the ideal situation is, in fact, during a full-on offense, not leaving someone free to cure. Look, if Shuyin turns off parry/stance/rebounding and I hammer his chest with jabs WITH the artifacted axe, I will never get him above medium wounds or kill him with damage. Thus by this logic, under my optimal conditions, I need a damage upgrade.
What do you want? Manamindblast? Supermanasplosion? Develop your skillsets to supplement the draining if need be. This is why monks are getting the speed nerf bat, or did you miss that? Overall, people think it is wrong if you hit a speed increase skill and "bowl people over".
What do you want? Manamindblast? Supermanasplosion? Develop your skillsets to supplement the draining if need be. This is why monks are getting the speed nerf bat, or did you miss that? Overall, people think it is wrong if you hit a speed increase skill and "bowl people over".
Monks didn't get a speed nerf. Races did, and it has effected other classes more than it has effected them. Amissio before racial changes was at a perfect balance. Racial changes have obviously messed that up, along with countless other things.
And, if Shuyin had 4000 health, and could stay below medium only applying health, yes something would be wrong.
Celina2008-05-03 18:54:30
I'd have to agree with Talkan here. If Talkan and I are agreeing...something is either very wrong...or the points Malarious is bringing up are actually Valid.
Compare the mana kill to telepathy ego kill. Both need to be down to half to work, and work essentially the same way. Telepaths have cure hindering that meshes perfectly with their ego draining, and works on even high ego targets. Nihilists can either afflict...or drain mana.
Compare the mana kill to telepathy ego kill. Both need to be down to half to work, and work essentially the same way. Telepaths have cure hindering that meshes perfectly with their ego draining, and works on even high ego targets. Nihilists can either afflict...or drain mana.
Unknown2008-05-03 18:55:32
QUOTE(Celina @ May 3 2008, 02:54 PM) 508594
I'd have to agree with Talkan here. If Talkan and I are agreeing...something is either very wrong...or the points Malarious is bringing up are actually Valid.
Compare the mana kill to telepathy ego kill. Both need to be down to half to work, and work essentially the same way. Telepaths have cure hindering that meshes perfectly with their ego draining, and works on even high ego targets. Nihilists can either afflict...or drain mana.
Compare the mana kill to telepathy ego kill. Both need to be down to half to work, and work essentially the same way. Telepaths have cure hindering that meshes perfectly with their ego draining, and works on even high ego targets. Nihilists can either afflict...or drain mana.
Furthermore, telepaths are able to attack health, mana and ego simultaneously.
Desitrus2008-05-03 18:56:29
QUOTE(talkans @ May 3 2008, 01:53 PM) 508593
Monks didn't get a speed nerf. Races did, and it has effected other classes more than it has effected them. Amissio before racial changes was at a perfect balance. Racial changes have obviously messed that up, along with countless other things.
And, if Shuyin had 4000 health, and could stay below medium only applying health, yes something would be wrong.
And, if Shuyin had 4000 health, and could stay below medium only applying health, yes something would be wrong.
I said are gettings not did get. You still haven't answered me. What is it you hope to achieve? Gigantic multipool attacks with amissio?
Unknown2008-05-03 18:58:03
QUOTE(Desitrus @ May 3 2008, 02:56 PM) 508596
I said are gettings not did get. You still haven't answered me. What is it you hope to achieve? Gigantic multipool attacks with amissio?
The previous amissio balance, obviously.
Unknown2008-05-05 14:58:29
QUOTE(talkans @ May 3 2008, 02:58 PM) 508597
The previous amissio balance, obviously.
Though I agree with Desitrus, Xenthos, and others in this thread, if all you want is the previous Amissio speed (presumably, as one of the speed-nerfed races, like Mugwump), then make the simple suggestion that Amissio equilibrium time be reduced by the same percentage? It's not like Amissio is suddenly draining less mana per use, is it? So, the speed is the only issue here, and that can be quite easily adjusted. However, that now makes it better for other races, and that's often the problem with suggestions like this...
Do you have timestamps from before the racial changes to show how long it took you to recover equilibrium from Amissio (quickened and not)? If so, then you can compare and make more reasonable suggestions here.
Ashteru2008-05-05 15:07:01
Still wanting to see logs from Malarious fighting someone from his perspective to see what he uses in fights.
Geb2008-05-05 17:12:27
What are the base speeds on Amissio and the mana drains Wiccans and Nihilists possess?
Daganev2008-05-05 18:16:02
QUOTE(Desitrus @ May 3 2008, 11:49 AM) 508592
Look, if Shuyin turns off parry/stance/rebounding and I hammer his chest with jabs WITH the artifacted axe, I will never get him above medium wounds or kill him with damage.
I do not think this is true.
You should test it, because I bet he has to use sparkle and healingscrolls to over come it.
Ildaudid2008-05-05 19:08:49
QUOTE(daganev @ May 5 2008, 02:16 PM) 509094
I do not think this is true.
You should test it, because I bet he has to use sparkle and healingscrolls to over come it.
You should test it, because I bet he has to use sparkle and healingscrolls to over come it.
If this does test true will it get warriors a damage boost? Like the cosmics want for mana drain? >.> If you say flat out no, then the answer should be a flat out no to mana drain boosting too though.
Malarious2008-05-05 23:01:03
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ May 5 2008, 03:08 PM) 509106
If this does test true will it get warriors a damage boost? Like the cosmics want for mana drain? >.> If you say flat out no, then the answer should be a flat out no to mana drain boosting too though.
Once mana drains also cause an affliction that is cured by applying mana and allows more drain or afflictions then sure! (Mana wounding!)
Ildaudid2008-05-05 23:16:39
QUOTE(Malarious @ May 5 2008, 07:01 PM) 509164
Once mana drains can miss, are subjected to stancing, parrying, weapon parry, adjusted properly by armour and shields, and are affected by rebounding and also cause an affliction that is cured by applying mana and allows more drain or afflictions then sure! (Mana wounding!)
You are forgetting a few important factors.... lemme edit it for you. Lets not forget to add any downsides Mal
Desitrus2008-05-05 23:34:06
QUOTE(daganev @ May 5 2008, 01:16 PM) 509094
I do not think this is true.
You should test it, because I bet he has to use sparkle and healingscrolls to over come it.
You should test it, because I bet he has to use sparkle and healingscrolls to over come it.
With my wounding artifact? I sincerely doubt it, as it hits for 600 or so. If I use my damage artifact he has to apply once for ever six or seven hits, oh noes.
Ashteru2008-05-05 23:36:40
QUOTE
8349h, 6555m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
Chanting dark words Daem points towards you, sending a shiver up your spine.
8349h, 5572m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5135m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
(Market): Urazial says, "Exceedingly bored tailor for hire."
8349h, 5135m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 6304m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5396m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
(Skeleton Hearth): Sarrasri says, "I don't favour for it."
8349h, 5396m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 5396m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 6555m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5572m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 6118m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5135m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 6239m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
(Market): Jigan says, "Artisan for hire, ad 154."
8349h, 6314m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
Jim has been cut down by a mountain rockeater.
You see the death occur at nearing the remains of the peak of Mount Seirode.
8349h, 6314m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5331m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 5331m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 6555m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5572m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 5572m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 4664m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 5584m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
(Skeleton Hearth): Kelysa says, "Apparently people do when people they like are
in the group or something. /accusationsoffavoritism."
8349h, 5584m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 4601m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 5554m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5117m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
The potion flows down your throat without effect.
8349h, 5117m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 5117m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 6437m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5454m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 5454m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:01.700/<>-
Succumbing! Watch Mana!
8349h, 4471m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:04.325/<>-
outr reishi
eat reishi
sip mana
You remove 1 reishi, bringing the total in the Rift to 634.
8349h, 4471m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:04.653/<>-
You eat a reishi mushroom.
8349h, 5017m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:04.981/<>-
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 5926m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:05.434/<>-
You may eat or smoke another herb.
8349h, 5926m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:06.231/<>-
CURED succumbing
8349h, 6001m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:06.918/<>-
Chanting dark words Daem points towards you, sending a shiver up your spine.
8349h, 5572m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5135m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
(Market): Urazial says, "Exceedingly bored tailor for hire."
8349h, 5135m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 6304m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5396m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
(Skeleton Hearth): Sarrasri says, "I don't favour for it."
8349h, 5396m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 5396m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 6555m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5572m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 6118m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5135m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 6239m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
(Market): Jigan says, "Artisan for hire, ad 154."
8349h, 6314m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
Jim has been cut down by a mountain rockeater.
You see the death occur at nearing the remains of the peak of Mount Seirode.
8349h, 6314m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5331m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 5331m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 6555m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5572m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 5572m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 4664m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 5584m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
(Skeleton Hearth): Kelysa says, "Apparently people do when people they like are
in the group or something. /accusationsoffavoritism."
8349h, 5584m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 4601m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 5554m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5117m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
The potion flows down your throat without effect.
8349h, 5117m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 5117m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
sip mana
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 6437m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
The shadows weigh on your thoughts, draining your mental energies.
8349h, 5454m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
8349h, 5454m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:01.700/<>-
Succumbing! Watch Mana!
8349h, 4471m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:04.325/<>-
outr reishi
eat reishi
sip mana
You remove 1 reishi, bringing the total in the Rift to 634.
8349h, 4471m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:04.653/<>-
You eat a reishi mushroom.
8349h, 5017m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:04.981/<>-
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
8349h, 5926m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:05.434/<>-
You may eat or smoke another herb.
8349h, 5926m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:06.231/<>-
CURED succumbing
8349h, 6001m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk /01:35:06.918/<>-
Succumb too weak because I can outsip it? Y/N?
(Yes, succumb is passive. Still, it's the most complained about mana-robbing skill, and people can still outsip it.)
Xenthos2008-05-05 23:39:14
QUOTE(Ashteru @ May 5 2008, 07:36 PM) 509175
Succumb too weak because I can outsip it? Y/N?
(Yes, succumb is passive. Still, it's the most complained about mana-robbing skill, and people can still outsip it.)
(Yes, succumb is passive. Still, it's the most complained about mana-robbing skill, and people can still outsip it.)
I bet you 5 credits that you can outsip it in choke, too!
Desitrus2008-05-05 23:40:38
People with this 8349h, ---->6555m, 4761e, 10p, 30900en, 26400w elrxk<>- have always been able to outsip succumb, even PRE-NERF. The problem is when succumb blows away 1/3 of your mana.
