Other than to say that flow doesn't need nerfing any more than it already has been, or other changes made to accomodate for it, I'll leave that part alone.

As for the slain loyal things, it's not a horrible idea in principle but it wouldn't really work because we have to quest for ladies, whereas you don't for angels. You would have to make them reset if you wanted them to cost anything.

Either way, They either need to be both meldable, or both not

Nejii, making Ethereal meldable promotes PK, as this game very damn well should. Just because you happen to dislike PK (See: Nejii's rant about Domoth's having to do with PK) doesn't mean the rest of the game should bow to your desires. You argue that you don't want Etherwilde/glom to be raided like Cosmic does. Why should you guys have that security? it's a BS argument, and frankly you're wrong on most accounts. people whine and complain about how they can't raid Etherwilde/glom, how there's no reason to, etc. Step 1: make them both meldable!

Preferably both, you rarely find the home plane not without somebody on it to alert people, and it always take a few moments to break and set up a demesne with effects into an area. Plus, rarely do we find Celestia not rippled, but that's only Celestia. I bet you find Liveforest rarely up, because you never find the need too.

Nice rhetoric?

thank you, I do indeed use the English language quite well

Sure make it meldable, move Glom's feather away from their Nexus first though.

Also, not like it's hard to get into Etherglom/wilde though, even now.

I agree with Revan, make Ethereal meldable, the communes need more conflict!

There always has been. You can even raid Prime and drain power. You're just killing the wrong ones.

Of course the people who are crying foul that the ethereal realm should be meldable are going to be more than happy when the communes set up camp on their elemental planes to hunt for essence in the protection of their melds. Obviously this isn't going to have an effect on them just making sure we oblitterate unmeldable areas completely for balance sake.

Also implying the lack of use of a discretionary power is relative to necessity is mind-boggling as there is no loss to using said abilities, the lack would be related to the availablility of security and the willingness of the guilds to appoint people to that position.

Exactly why there needs to be a loss on Ethereal realm as there is on Cosmic realms.

I think he means there is (I assume he's referring to the Fae.) Which we also have to quest for for you to have any targets, but oh well!

The argument that Ethereal shouldn't be meldable doesn't hold up. When you consider all the advantages a organization has on it's home ground, a demesne is one of the only things that gives an invading force a beachhead of any kind. It's not like a demesne is totally unbreakable once established, or means instant doom for the defender.

Not being able to meld dilutes and discourages conflict, not least because it denies druids any real role in raiding. You can point to Krellan, but honestly - he didn't get away with raiding because he was a druid, it was because he was a titan (and then a demigod) and thus could tank and deal damage.

Ethereal conflict - commune conflict - still has other issues. We shouldn't need to go to Prime for it, because we've been told again and again that most conflict belongs on the planes. Liveforest shouldn't break up groups - whether that means changing how it works or what it does, I don't know, but breaking up groups gimps raiding even further.

The feather needs to be moved. Period.

The argument that Ethereal and possibly cosmic shouldn't be meldable does hold up because generally the advantages of a demesne are superior to ripple/liveforest, as Magnagoran raids on Celestia will demonstrate if you hadn't experienced it yourself. This is even more obvious with mage demesnes than with druid demesnes (since the movement hindering is better, and they stun rather than just paralyse) but it still applies with druid ones. The raiding group, as is well known, also has the advantage of initiative, and being the ones that decide where and when a fight is fought has its own advantages. The defender needs to have these advantages to hold up better and because it -shouldn't- be easy to raid. It's not like the defender necessarily gets the demesne either, because they generally won't have one set up all the time and as the raiders get to decide when they're fighting, they get to break one even if it is there before anoyne arrives to activate it. The argument about druids/mages is kind of sad. It's not like they're useless out of demesne in group combat. Sure, druids are pretty weak out of demesne in solo but they still have a variety of skills and effects, particularly the ability to attack from outside of the room (and thus outside a defending demesne if that comes up or any other hostile effects.) Come to think of it, by allowing the defender a chance to get up a demesne you need a druid or mage to break it to begin with, so you still need one. Np. And mages are even better off, with psionics.

I am all for liveforest and ripple being streamlined such that they tick slower and at the same time (to stop groups being broken up) and also either the feather or the monolith moved.

Rather than raiding Ethereal needing to be made easier on the raiders, abuse of cosmic with stuff like cubix and melds should be adjusted to compensate.

I wouldn't mind the possibility of cubix raids on Ethereal. Just make it E, D, OUT and W, D, OUT from the Higher Planar Fulcrux so that you can keep the same elevations without opening up prism raiding. The demesne issue is pretty big, though, and does a lot to discourage raiding. I would love to see demesnes on ethereal.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I want to comment to this, Shiri.

Whether or not the idea of making Ethereal Seren/Glom meldable to you is appealing, it simply is not fair that the comsic planes can be melded by an opposing org while communes are free from worry. Water and Earth are off limits sure enough, but there's more to protect on Nil and Celestia. Ethereal SW also has the advantage of having their lesser and half-form spirit thingies on the same plane- in an unmeldable area. Liveforest splits up groups and is probably one of the best area defenses. Ripple does not and should not be considered. Flux is powerful. There is absolutely no way to raid as a group in flux, but again, slaying things on Earth-Water costs nothing in terms of power to the cities. So to make it balanced, communes need to become vulnerable to that sort of thing again. It's only right!

Edit: Read through the last few pages and it seems I've repeated what others have said, but honestly Shiri, ripple is in NO WAY better than liveforest. I've raided in both. Liveforest is insane.

Especially with the new writhing changes, heh.

I've had ripple hit so fast that it hit while I was immune to stun, effectively doing nothing except minor damage.

Sorry if someone mentioned this (not reading all 7 pages before I post a comment), but in Achaea a shimmering orb was made purchasable by cities that stop the ability to use wings (cubix in this case) because this was a very big problem in that game as well.

That'd be good here. It'd stop the kicking entities+cubixing stuff. I'd love an orb. That's why it was implemented in Achaea.