I'll take a look at the time you spend reforming and probably reduce it.

The one issue I'd like addressed is how unfriendly the Lusternian combat system is for newbies. Common skills, which are almost never discussed as a whole by envoys, need some revamping to make it easier for newbies to get into combat. Discipline/Discernment/Environment are all very lackluster, but have a few key abilities each required for combat. The three should be revamped into two skillsets: a lot like Survival/Perception from other IRE realms. Magic should be made into a mini-skill, with additional mini-skills for a few different types of damage (fire, cold, electricity). The reasoning would be that not everyone needs all types of damage-resistance; a Krokani Paladin would not need to transcend the Magic skill, but he may need to transcend the Fire skill.

Although not directly related to combat, Dramatics/Arts should be made into mini-skills, as their benefits are simply not worth the 300 credits.

Agreed!

Agree with the problem, not sure about the solution.


Agreed



I...like this idea a lot. Maybe getting Magic up to Mastery then picking a specialization (Fire, Cold, Electricity, etc).

Pardon my ignorance, but since Lusternia is my first and only MUD, what exactly do you mean by miniskill? Is this a skillset that simply takes fewer lessons to trans, in that it's more focused and provides only a narrow range of benefiits?

Achaea had common skills that only cost 150 credits to trans. You can think of Magic as a perfect example of a skill that would have been a mini skill in achaea.

I'd just like to say that I love the skill of Riding. It gives me so many great conveniences that I couldn't live without. It also gives me more options in combat (options are a good thing!).

Some of my favorite things about Riding:

Trotting. I utterly DETEST the "Now, now, don't hurry" messages. I want to get where I want to go, without being stopped! Now, I completely understand the reason behind it, and I don't want to see it changed. I just enjoy that I can go further before being stopped.

Gallop. Basically a clone of some other skills, but to a Celestine, a new way to get around (see above).

Mountjump. I've used this to get by obstacles it would take too long to tumble through. Doesn't work on everything, but love it. (incidently, a long time ago it didn't have any limit to how many times I could use it, but now it gives the "Hurry" messages, I can live with that, but it was fun at the time to be able to speedwalk anywhere )

Blocking. Same as Gallop as it's a clone of other skills. Gives a Celestine more options in combat.

I'd just ask that for whatever changes you make to Riding, please keep these intact, or not nerfed. Life in Lusternia is so much more enjoyable with these skills.

I'll take a whack at it.

I wasn't the most successful Nihilist around, but I had some tricks and I actually managed to beat decent fighters. The problem is that Nihilist basically have a 40 second window to set someone up for the kill. Some methods work while others don't depending on the system and the class of your target. Some may say this is fine, but having to run and wait for 20 power while you set everything up again for another run ruins the class. For example, I remember a fight specifically with shikha. I tried 4 different Aeon locks on her and aeon just wouldn't stick, so I switched to crucify/double darksilver. It worked, but it only worked once. It's exactly what Thoros said, a cheap trick. She wasn't prepared for it and our next fight it failed miserably because she had checks for it, and I had no way to kill her. Nihilists have several strategies but they are so ridiculously easy to predict and because they've been out for so long with so many good fighters trying different strategies, systems have become all but immune to them.

No matter your system, you are never immune to wounds and damage. You are never immune to mindburst, or demesnes, or ruptures, so on and so fourth.

As for specific skills that suck. Demons. The invests are predictable, the demon attacking like different demon lords may be nice RP but it ruins the demon. Slime=anorexia. Claws=shackles. It's just too predictable and easy to make checks for. Take Forren's system. With this egg thing he does, aeon locks are, I dare say, impossible. I certainly couldn't ever stick it on Veonira (who uses his system) and I talked extensively with Lyco about it. He was getting close, but couldn't seem to crack it either. Things like contort destroy writhe stacking. Crucify, which I suppose is supposed to balance with Inquisition some what, is awful 1v1. 7 second equilibirum loss. Spawn is borderline worthless. Actually, a lot of skills in Nihilism stink. Now, the saving grace of Nihilists was they could pick a fast race, and stack afflictions at a decent rate. We all know how that went, and the two sided sword is that they also can't balance lock the few Tae'dae and Igashos out there. Malarious has even tried a damage heavy nihilist, and (sorry Mal) it's not really possible. Demon with double flames plus omen and quickened cosmicfires and the spawn, and I tanked him with 5k health.

Malarious, I'm sure, can give an extensive list of Nihilist and Necromancy skills that need to be looked at. It's been a while since I used them

PLEASE.

I agree with Fain. There's certainly some tweaks needed, but what it needs is motivation to get involved in it, sufficient to overcome the considerable cost-of-entry of getting a set of people together at the same time (not to mention the ship itself and skills).

One word: Hunger

I think everybody in IRE agrees that Hunger has always been a cheap skill to win by.

Another: Soulcage-esque skills

Again, most people that play IRE has argued against Soulcage at one point or another, Nihilists/Celestines both have a type of Soulcage.

Or empressing into Methrenton-Gorgulu.

Or conjuctioing into your Nexus World so the enemy can't get out unless they have a whistle and a ship.



In fact, you are right most of these would be argued about (whether they are cheap or not), but if you gave Guardians something to do in team combat aside from hindering and breaking people up, actually giving them a viable option to use, then what most would consider cheap skills might not be used. It's a sad day when Nihilists/Celestines have to use the same skills and tricks (no matter how cheap) to win as they did three-four real life years ago when I was a Nihilist.

The way I look at it is that they are basically artifacts. For example, here is a quote from Achaea's helpfile "defensive artifacts":



Lusternia just offers the same ability as the Magic skillset instead. Actually, you get a little more out of it since there are some secondary effects as well (like reducing the mana drain of succumb). In all, it's a lot cheaper than if we were to offer the "big" abilities as stand-alone artifacts. Ditto for Planar, Resilience, etc.

Going to aetherbubbles or going to aetherspace? When you talk about aetherspace as a way to get to aetherbubbles, all it is is a hassle, a delay, a source of frustration. That's why everyone chooses Commander. Aetherspace has to be about aetherspace itself too or it'll never be anything but an obstacle.

And novices going to aetherspace makes great sense. For about nine lessons they can be a useful part of a ship's crew and go out hunting aethercreatures. If the ship's a sturdy vessel with a good captain, novices can score big on experience, while getting to do something that makes them feel like a part of a group, with relatively little risk. They just have to have someone experienced helping them who's willing to put in some time making crappy experience for himself, and who has a ship. But in my experience (speaking as someone who's experienced, willing to help them, willing to make crappy essence for myself, and who has a ship) it's a lot easier to find the captain than the novices.

I could.. or could just give another skillset to replace Nihilism with.

As a note I dont double invest flame, that wouldnt do anything (flame only does damage if the person isnt already ignited). And some people can die to damage (ixion almost did, as a mugwump he wouldnt have made it, rika has and does, and some others are open to it) but thats largely because of the luck of astrology to get a decent damage type when only poison (1/6 chance) is worth anything major (sometimes fire).

If you can tell what demons doing you have already eliminated 70% of the variety of what we can pull. If you cant be caught in aeon you can stop 90% of people. At this point the chances to kill you lie in stupidity really really disliking you if you can cure aeon decently.

I will be open to ideas in PM, messages, tells, and letters on changes for any and all Nihilist skills to try to fix them.

Questions for Esty:
-If aeon were made a Nihilism skill (no its not even on the table at the moment but it gives me an idea of extent of changes) could we just alter the skills that would make it too strong so we could get the aeon?
-We cant specialize hexes but we can fix Nihilism in most ways needed so long as they still work with Demon and such?
-Is it possible to alter the 'thrall' mechanic any? Its the preplanned afflicting that makes Aeon locks reasonable, if we could alter that we could change skills to not base around aeon. This is a heavy heavy option and also isnt on the table at the moment.

Uhh... they have a miniskill called Constitution that gives magic resistance. You can get that ring in ADDITION to that.

PS. How to fix Nihilists: Replace Nihilism with Apostasy. Replace Tarot with Evileye.

Personally, I think when someone says that a "skillset sucks" what they are basically saying is that it lacks synergy.

Its really hard to be specific about a lack of something like synergy.

If resilience and Magic are both considered "artifacts"...then they shouldn't be required for top tier combat. At the moment, they are.

Can I cast another vote for making the newer guilds on a par with the older ones? Nothing I haven't argued for before, so I won't list the arguments again unless you want me to. But: give us more, and more meaningful, skill choices; guards and discretionary powers (bards got that, monks not yet); and most importantly, take seriously the idea that we could use some kind of connection to the theme and symbols and spirituality of our cities and communes. (Look at the fit the Moondancers are having over a small dilution in what we never even had in the first place, to get an idea of how important this is, how easy it is to take for granted, and how much we've been missing it.)

Wouldn't mind getting that chance to revamp our one unique skill, and address the fact that the help files still say we're a support class and no one but me thinks we can or should be one; but I've given up hope on those, as I have on so many other things related to my guild, particularly those where it takes longer to do something than it does for the active population to turn over, forcing you to start over trying to do it.

Magic also offers more protection than Constitution, and additional effects. It's not a simple 1:1 comparison like some people are implying.



How is it required more than any other artifact that confers a combat bonus? If someone has invested a lot of credits into artifacts and common skills for the purpose of gaining an advantage in combat, isn't it fair that - if player skill is equal - they will have an advantage over someone who hasn't?

I use the comparison because a mini skill gives no skills just some boost behind the scenes. You are right, they are basically artifacts in skill form. This does not change the fact that Achaea priced these "non-skill skills" at 150 while they are priced at 300 here. Having them do more to justify the increased cost only makes them that more "required" for serious combat. To also be fair Achaea had a lot more than 2, and many people found it to be "required" to get more than 600 credits worth of them.

At the same time I do not see them being changed to cost 150 credits in their current form. Reducing their power to justify lowering the cost would require additional balance tweaks to bring attacks in line with their reduced functionality. It would also probably require a credit refund. I think it was a poor choice to require so many 300 credit skills but once it was done I do not think you can reasonably go back on it without some major work.