First I appreciate the explanation of how the system works.



Agreed. Change = Angst.



I understand there is a deadline and you are mitigating red tape. Its just my view that once things are decided and done they are not often revisited, for a perfectly practical reason. You are done and have other things to do, lets move on. In that case I think any valid unhappiness about a decision or design decision is less often corrected (if it is valid) unless there is constant forum campaigning (ie constructs, lich, flavour of the month).

So, to insulate the committee from constant lobbying why not a common email dump (for lack of a better term right now) were all of the unknown committee can view the suggestions, and a couple of general announcements 'Hi we are reviewing constructs GET YOUR OPINIONS IN OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE' etc. I know Estarra opened a thread on the subject, but some were wondering where the changes were, that they expected (got the impression from the thread) were going to happen. Then the committee is revealed at the end of the process.

Part of the issue I'm addressing is some people view of unknown committees with a bit of suspicion, valid or not. But my disagreement really comes down to differing views on how to design the committee process, which in the greater scheme of things may not matter.

Anyway I just wanted to take the time to answer and I'm done

Edit: MOAR Grammar

My position on committees is that they should be as public as envoys are. I personally feel both should be more public than they are but if that's not going to change it's ok. Making the members of the committees visible might be nice though - I did ask a good amount for suggestions but since I couldn't exactly post something like that IC I suspect there were a good amount of people who didn't know I was on it.

HONORS NEJII

He bears the Golden Yoke of the Committee

Rather, "we are holding a constructs committee and blah blah, members are Catarin, Nejii, ," etc.

It was sarcasm. You are british, you should get it.

Also the above is a good idea.

I did get it...and Britain is better at sardonicism and cynicism. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit!

I bite my thumb at you sir! Puns are the lowest form of wit!

*exit stage left*

Oh yeah? Well -I- thumb my nose at you! Take that!

@Morgfyre going back to Soj's ascendant cost vs Demigod cost thing.

I died to see for myself on astral, thanks to Desitrus, so I wasn't really planning on it, but I figured since he wanted to attack me I could find out the cost and he'll get to kill me. Anyways, Cost was 50k from dying. 100k for reforming. I'm not sure if it's 100k for all around reforming or if it's like it was before with 250k on prime, 50k for loyal territory, or 100k for off prime phoenixing.

If this is the case, I still think 250k for an ascendant to reform is a good enough change from the current 500k cost because they do have the option to forgo all experience lost simply by waiting.

Just a shot in the dark.

Disclaimer: If this is what serpent does already, I'm sorry. Please don't hurt me!

It's not serpent, but unless X is pretty low it would have to drop when you move to avoid being too much. Serpent should also stop psionics.

That's basically what serpent does, almost, heh.

Well, yeah, but it's a variant. Instead of dropping on moving it drops after X attacks.

Meh, back to the idea board.

Okay I'm quoting myself cause I feel this is important enough to reiterate. I'll expound on a few points and add suggestions.




There is little reason for commune vs commune conflict. There's also little reason for cities to fight against the communes. I'll try and list one problem at a time, but they generally affect each other:

First, let's look at Ethereal Glomdoring and the aspects. It's been how long since bard guards were introduced? Yet, still, the -only- entrance to the aspects of Crow are above the Ravenwood NEXUS The one room where guards can be. So to do so, you need to get past 30-40 guards, a tuned totem, a bard guard stunning you on entrance and a bard guard knocking you out of any other elevation besides ground elevation on entrance.

Now suppose you actually get in, you also have to get out the same way except you start out off balance when trying to escape. Or you pay 700 credits for a prism or 2000 for a cubix. These are the only guaranteed ways provided Glomdoring manages a very reasonable upkeep of monolith and flame sigils. This is only commune vs commune by the way. I suppose cities could disenchant the sigils an escape, but why would they even want to enter?

Just entering Glomdoring is hard enough. To safely enter and exit, you need an aethership. Teleporting out is easily stopped by monolith sigils which cannot be disenchanted by communes and distortion from shrines. Cubixes are a safe exit and are more common now, but they do not provide an entrance as they do for both the elemental and cosmic planes.

Now, since I focused on defenses and difficulty of Ethereal combat earlier and in the quote, I want to turn to incentive.

The incentive is very weak for Serenwilde to raid Glomdoring or vice versa. Previously we had the faethorn conflict where it actually had -meaning- to kill off Ladies of Mother Moon or Daughters of Mother Night. Now there is none. There's no power loss per death as there is on the cosmic planes when angels and demons die. Fae cannot be taken or converted in any way. Even slaying the Avatars will do nothing beneficial. Causing the other organization to lose 1000 power is laughable.

We need some kind of conflict quest like the supernals/demon lords and the star and necromantate. Killing Crow or White Hart is near impossible because it can basically only be done on Full and New Moons also requiring you to be in the opposing Prime territory.

I'll list all possible thoughts I've had on this. They are not in a preferred order nor am I supportive of all of these:

1) Some version of the faethorn conflict quest should be brought back. Even just bringing back the part where we can give fae silver honeycakes and Glomdoring can give fae something else to free them from each other's side would be a nice start.

2) Limbo exit to each respective ethereal

3) Have power drained from the respective nexus for every daughter/lady killed. Equivalent to angels and demons killed.

4) Have some beneficial use for slaying daughters/ladies. A way to convert them to essence. Better yet, a way to convert them into their opposite! Example: turning a Daughter (night) into a Lady (moon) or converting a Lady (moon) into a Daughter (night)

5) Some reason to want to slay the Avatars other than the want to kill them. Currently all is done but offering them. This one actually applies for the cities as well.

-One idea for this is to allow each city to turn the corpse into a specific Demon Lord or Supernal. Doing so will either enslave (DL) or temporarily convert (Supernal) said Avatar. This will add 1000 power to that respective nexus. An altered and properly depicted avatar will float somewhere on whatever Cosmic plane. Citizens of that city may GREET the enslaved/converted avatar for an item. This item will allow them to do a specific influencing attack on fae in faethorn. Celestians will be able to use the Seduction attacks on fae and Magnagorans will use the paranoia attacks. Having said item while successfully influencing the fae will allow you to successfully capture the fae into your inventory and turn it into a respective angel or demon.

-An idea for the communes would be that slaying an Avatar and turning the corpse in to a certain Avatar will cause the opposite side to lose ladies/daughters.
-Alternatively or additionally it could cause the side turning in the avatar to gain a certain amount of daughters/Ladies (so turning in Lhiannon to Selene means more Ladies for Seren)
-Needs to be an incentive for having Ladies and daughters though. This could be an increased power gain for returning fae to that specific avatar. This would also limit where avatars could be handed in. Selene to Glumki, Albion to Lhiannon, Luna to Gwyllgi and vice versa to each.
Example: well, I forget the specific Lady names, but they vary based on which avatar (Selene, Albion, Luna) they are from. Let's say Albion has an increase in her ladies alive. This would increase the amount of power gained for your nexus when you influence a fae in faethorn an return it to Albion. Only specific fae can be turned into her just as only specific ones can be turned into Luna, Selene and all other avatars.


I actually forgot any further ideas I had fleshing out number 5 right there because that came to me on the spot as I'm writing this now. So i'll stop here, wait for comments and add more as necessary.

Krellan has brought up extremely great points. Currently there -is- no incentive for Commune vrs Commune, or rather City vrs Commune. Magnagora could slay ladies all day with nothing happening to Serenwilde, other than having them quest for more. However Serenwilde could slay demons all day, draining considerable amounts of power if they managed to kill enough.

Killing Avatars is pointless for commune vrs commune. Unlike when a Demonlord/Supernal dies (The Nihilist/Celestine loses their symbol, and their pacts, and are unable to pact while said Demonlord/Supernal is dead), all the communes lose is a single fae. This also assists in the problem which is currently at hand (which is the no incentive to attack/raid forestal organizations.)

I also find it kind of unfair how Water/Earth/Celestia/Nil have cubix entrances, yet Etherwilde and Etherglom lack them.

Other points which Krellan has stated hold true, I hope the administration reallylooks into it.

I remember when I started playing there was incentive for commune vs. commune and city vs. commune. That was all removed. I can't find/remember the reasons though.

It'd be fair for the cities to have the cubix idiocy removed, although then it'd be way easier to get into communes due to the enchantment as utility/alchemy as utility imbalance - you could just spore in and out from Faethorn with nothing the Communes could do about it.
There doesn't need to be incentives for communes/cities to raid each other for it to happen anyway, and it'd be good to have it kept to a reasonable level.

However, the ripple/liveforest thing is another matter.

I've not had time to look over the whole of the past two posts, but I wanted to touch on something I noticed, notably Commune v Commune conflict.

Conflict is what you make of it. HOWEVER. There is now a purpose for the corpses of the appropriate Avatars, and there is a commune version of the Star/Necromentate quest. However, no one has slain a Moon or a Night avatar to see it. It does, however, exist - and the quests to kill Crow/Hart and destroy the Flame/Drums have been activated once more.

I know this is probably a useless statement but...

Liveforst really, really, sucks. I hate it. Whoever thought of it was evil and unkind, especially adding the fact that you can't have meld on Ethereal plane. Setting up the cities to lose -9k power every week or two with Demon Lord/Supernal slaying, while the Avatars get to live.